Installed 4.20.1 MPG issue?

[Fastest1]

Take the time to re read the probe setup manual as Swissi suggested https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _setup.pdf

Ok, so I changed the status of the probes switch. Sure enough everything returned to normal.
So that brings up the issues. My probe worked great as did my MPG with the prior versions and
settings I had.
Now it says probe cleared when it is tripped and vice versa.
I know there are opinions on which is best NO or NC but the
truth is they work exactly the same unless there is a wiring
or switch failure. Then 1 does have an advantage or might be
safer in an industrial environment.
This also brings me back to the problem of a variance between the VCP and MPG?
If you were to protect me from a potential crash wouldnt it be universal?
It is ok to drive at high speed via the VCP and likely no view of the part or machine
but when I am looking into the machine or part I cant have the same control or lack of?
All I know is everything worked well with the settings prior.
The probe I use is an NC switch.

[martyscncgarage]

When I can, I follow the Centroid Lead. That is, I study the Centroid Documentation, the DP-4 probe, the TT1 tool touch off device manuals, how is it wired, Probe Detect Circuit, and Probe Tripped Circuit etc. Centroid built the safey features using their designs. Centroid is trying to be "accomodative" with other designs.
In the end, if its not Centroid produced, its up to you to make it work, not them to make their software work for you and your particular device.

They've been doing CNC Machine control specifically for over 30 years successfully. There is some creedence in that work. Not to say it can't be improved, they are certainly moving quickly with Centroid Acorn and CNC12. They DO listen to their customers, then they evaluate if it makes good business sense to move forward with the development and testing. Take KP-3, it was born out of the frustration of trying to support every inexpensive probe out there and make it a little easier for the users to have a decent, reliable and reasonably accurate Probe. Will it be cheap? No. Will it be as inexpensive as DP-4? No, it will be reasonable, where they can affordo to produce and SUPPORT it.

It would do all users well to take the time and research all the literature and schematics Centroid has published. There are a lot of good solid ideas in them.

I'm not saying you can't make a probe work with their software, Keith really went above and beyond to create the Probe manual with various combinations and he got a lot of feedback from probe users. He was trying to be accomodative, but too many choices I don't think is necessarily a good thing. (My opinion)

Software is going to evolve, and change, hopefully for the better. Somethings you were used to in a previous version, may change and be different. The intent is to make it more intuitive and better....in the long run. It takes a little time to get used to it.

Keith, is always looking for Beta testers. But trust me, its a lot of work, time and sometimes money. So don't volunteer unless you can commit for the long haul. You are testing for the masses, not just testing for yourself. It can be enjoyable and rewarding to be part of what Centroid is trying to do.

Marty

[Fastest1]

I like the product just fine. It worked great as per the instructions with the hardware I have now.
During the change of software a setting has had a different effect than previous or wasnt transferred properly after the update.
I am also not pretending I as a hobbyist have a better grasp of safety or the risk of liability.
Having had a little experience with Mach3, FlashCut and now Centroid, i can say Centroid is
a much more robust and industrial hardware/software, not bashing the others as all can get the job done.
In regards to beta, my ADD and lack of desire to document make a very unlikely candidate.
If you need a crash test dummy, call

[martyscncgarage]

I like the product just fine. It worked great as per the instructions with the hardware I have now.
During the change of software a setting has had a different effect than previous or wasnt transferred properly after the update.
I am also not pretending I as a hobbyist have a better grasp of safety or the risk of liability.
Having had a little experience with Mach3, FlashCut and now Centroid, i can say Centroid is
a much more robust and industrial not bashing the others as all can get the job done.
In regards to beta, my ADD and lack of desire to document make a very unlikely candidate.
If you need a crash test dummy, call

The statement wasn't necessarily directed at you. It was info in general. If you want to do something, with a non Centroid product, take a look at some of Centroid's documenation and see how they did it.

We are ALL Crash Test Dummies! I have a new to me VMC, I was lucky to get it. Crash one of those and it can be REALLY expensive to fix. Incidentally, I am kind of a similar situation, with a Centroid CNC10 control and a Metrol probe. I did post a similar question in the All in One DC/Oak/Legacy forum.
When I work with the older CNC10 software I can now REALLY APPRECIATE CNC12 and all of its features including the Wizard. I am by no stretch an expert!

Marty

[swissi]

Fastest1,

there was a new Parameter Setting for Probe Protection introduced with CNC12 v4.20. From what I know, Centroid got the requirement from OEMs to turn off Probe Protection in the VCP. Parameter 153 now configures if VCP Probe protection is ON or OFF. The upgrade process should have set this Parameter to ON by default but check it to make sure it is set to ON. This Parameter is being set in the Wizard:

I have tested every possible probe configuration combination in 4.20 and the only issue I found that's still open is the VCP directional Probe Protection when an unexpected Probe Trip occurs while jogging with the MPG.

When an unexpected Probe Trip occurs while jogging, the VCP will only let you jog away from the trip in the opposite direction until the trip signal is cleared. In order to do that, CNC12 needs to know in which direction you were jogging when the probe trip occurred. Now when CNC12 starts up with an already tripped probe signal it can't know in which direction the trip occurred so it can't protect any directions. Therefore it's always important that you look at the message section of CNC12 when it starts up. In your case you should have seen a Warning Message that there's a Probe Tripped situation.

As long as there's a Probe Tripped signal, the MPG will only let you jog in 1x speeds but there's no directional protection. This should not be a big deal as the 1x speed is so slow that it should not cause any harm.

Now the one thing that's still open and a danger in my opinion is the situation when you hit an unexpected probe trip while jogging with the MPG, if you then switch to the VCP for jogging, there's no directional jogging protection with the VCP, so the VCP does let you jog deeper into the tripped situation.

You also need to know that trip signals are still recognized by CNC12 in certain configurations even when there's a Detect Signal configured that is not active. Centroid's default probe configuration used to be NO and all the probing logic was written for NO type probes. Centroid had to make a lot of changes to fully support NC type probes and I applaud them for doing this. It is possible that any of these changes has impacted you probe configuration that was working in 4.18. When upgrading to a new version, I always suggest to verify if everything still works the way it used to and always check the messaging section for information that could point to a potential issue.

-swissi

[Fastest1]

Fastest1,

there was a new Parameter Setting for Probe Protection introduced with CNC12 v4.20. From what I know, Centroid got the requirement from OEMs to turn off Probe Protection in the VCP. Parameter 153 now configures if VCP Probe protection is ON or OFF. The upgrade process should have set this Parameter to ON by default but check it to make sure it is set to ON. This Parameter is being set in the Wizard:

VCP_Probe_Protection.png

I have tested every possible probe configuration combination in 4.20 and the only issue I found that's still open is the VCP directional Probe Protection when an unexpected Probe Trip occurs while jogging with the MPG.

When an unexpected Probe Trip occurs while jogging, the VCP will only let you jog away from the trip in the opposite direction until the trip signal is cleared. In order to do that, CNC12 needs to know in which direction you were jogging when the probe trip occurred. Now when CNC12 starts up with an already tripped probe signal it can't know in which direction the trip occurred so it can't protect any directions. Therefore it's always important that you look at the message section of CNC12 when it starts up. In your case you should have seen a Warning Message that there's a Probe Tripped situation.

As long as there's a Probe Tripped signal, the MPG will only let you jog in 1x speeds but there's no directional protection. This should not be a big deal as the 1x speed is so slow that it should not cause any harm.

Now the one thing that's still open and a danger in my opinion is the situation when you hit an unexpected probe trip while jogging with the MPG, if you then switch to the VCP for jogging, there's no directional jogging protection with the VCP, so the VCP does let you jog deeper into the tripped situation.

You also need to know that trip signals are still recognized by CNC12 in certain configurations even when there's a Detect Signal configured that is not active. Centroid's default probe configuration used to be NO and all the probing logic was written for NO type probes. Centroid had to make a lot of changes to fully support NC type probes and I applaud them for doing this. It is possible that any of these changes has impacted you probe configuration that was working in 4.18. When upgrading to a new version, I always suggest to verify if everything still works the way it used to and always check the messaging section for information that could point to a potential issue.

-swissi

First of all, thanks to all of you for your time and patience.
Marty you are an expert IMO even if you occasionally crash something.
I remember when I bought Dave's UMC10. He had the rapids set to 500"
per minute. I initially set the G54 to the wrong side of my vise I can verify
it does suck to crash a machine though it is small. There is a nice reminder every
time I see my vise.
I will have to go thru the settings on the probe and detection circuit again being
that my probe is an NC it should be fine.
Also during the verifying of some of the settings I did see the VCP protection was
defaulted to the 'on" selection.

[adatesman]

Dunno about the OP, but I had and was working. Only thing changed was upgrade from 4.18 to 4.20.1. Input from the Enable switch toggles reliably, but MPG locks if I unplug the probe, which is a different input, regardless of whether Enable switch is on or off. Can only move in x1 on the MPG.

Will go through it again though.

Thank You. It would appear they are reading a different thread. Mine too was working just fine on prior versions. I did change PC but not to a lesser grade at all. The other variable is the new software version.

Mine is new PC, direct from Centroid with new Acorn.

Was working fine in 4.18, I turn off the Probe Enable Switch, then unplug the probe, it moved in x10 and x100.

In 4.20.1, I do the same thing, the MPG locks and can only move when in x1. Which for me is 0.0001", and useless unless touching off.

Have not had time to review the document again, but was working, It is now not working is... Likely not my fault.

[cncsnw]

It does seem like CNC12 could be extended/improved so that, if a probe-detect signal is defined (Parameter 18) and is not indicating that the probe is present, then activity on the probe-tripped input need not inhibit jogging.

Or maybe that would just make it easier for people to crash their tool detectors, when the tool detector uses the same input (Parameter 11) as the probe, but has no detect circuit (Parameter 257)....

[Fastest1]

It does seem like CNC12 could be extended/improved so that, if a probe-detect signal is defined (Parameter 18) and is not indicating that the probe is present, then activity on the probe-tripped input need not inhibit jogging.

Or maybe that would just make it easier for people to crash their tool detectors, when the tool detector uses the same input (Parameter 11) as the probe, but has no detect circuit (Parameter 257)....

That is how it worked with the prior versions or seemed to.