What motor to use for lathe spindle?

[TRM]

Here is a video of the lathe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5BsG1JAFfM&t=406s

[mick41zxr]

TRM,
Looking at your video & the last manual you reference I do not see why you cannot use all your existing hardware with Acorn.
Your Siemens drivers appear to have pulse/step, direction & enable inputs, however you may need to run them via the DB25 port if they are 5v active.
With the spindle, decoding from the manual you appear to have a 2.2kW 200v motor with an incremental encoder. Driver is 3.0kVa 200v 3ph servo driver.
I would say that the transformer you have is a 3phase step down transformer 240v to 200v per phase as per driver requirements.
Check to see if the motor is geared to the spindle 1:1, if so as Marty says you can use the encoder output port (from driver) to Acorn, otherwise you will need to use the secondary external encoder (assuming it is 1:1 to the spindle).

They way I would attack this would be to pull the spindle driver & motor + an axis driver & motor from the cabinet to bench test first.
If the spindle is using the FV port it is not unreasonable to assume the spindle driver is already set to speed mode.
For bench testing spindle I would look at port T3 & T1 on driver as follows;

T3 (Spindle Driver)
Pin 1 (I1) to Acorn Relay port 1 N/O output - Set in wizard to FWD (Forward)
Pin 2 (I2) to Acorn Relay port 2 N/O output - Set in wizard to REV (Reverse)
Pin 8 connect to 24v
Pin 9 connect to 0v (DC common)

T1 (Spindle Driver)
Pin 6 (FC) to Acorn Analog Output 0v (common)
Pin 4 (FI) to Acorn Analog 0~10v

With your driver powered up (always with motor connected) go to An configuration.
A1.23 should be currently set to 1 (FV input) set this to 2 (FI input, T1 pin 4).
A2.00 set to 0, for terminal input.
A2.01 set to 1, for I1 Forward & I2 Reverse
A2.02 set to 1, for unipolarity (0~10v)
A2.15 set to 0, for analog speed control

The cable from Acorn analog output is recommended to be a shielded fig8 with the shield grounded, also Kieth has posted some technical bulletins about using zenner diodes & snubbers for noise suppression.

Best of luck,
Michael

[martyscncgarage]

The only thing I have to add is test the VFD and motor without connecting to Acorn first. Use an analog voltage, bench power supply or simple 1.5V or 9v battery as the analog voltage to the spindle does drive and use a jumper to touch to FWD to see if the spindle motor turns forward and then touch REV on the drive to see if it the motor goes in reverse. If so, then connect to Acorn. USE dry contact relay board on Acorn outputs. If you didn't get the relay board with Acorn order it or buy this one
https://www.amazon.com/Channels-24VDC-R ... ref=plSrch

Mdfly is an eBay seller and also has a website

Marty

[TRM]

TRM,
Looking at your video & the last manual you reference I do not see why you cannot use all your existing hardware with Acorn.
Your Siemens drivers appear to have pulse/step, direction & enable inputs, however you may need to run them via the DB25 port if they are 5v active.
With the spindle, decoding from the manual you appear to have a 2.2kW 200v motor with an incremental encoder. Driver is 3.0kVa 200v 3ph servo driver.
I would say that the transformer you have is a 3phase step down transformer 240v to 200v per phase as per driver requirements.
Check to see if the motor is geared to the spindle 1:1, if so as Marty says you can use the encoder output port (from driver) to Acorn, otherwise you will need to use the secondary external encoder (assuming it is 1:1 to the spindle).

They way I would attack this would be to pull the spindle driver & motor + an axis driver & motor from the cabinet to bench test first.
If the spindle is using the FV port it is not unreasonable to assume the spindle driver is already set to speed mode.
For bench testing spindle I would look at port T3 & T1 on driver as follows;

T3 (Spindle Driver)
Pin 1 (I1) to Acorn Relay port 1 N/O output - Set in wizard to FWD (Forward)
Pin 2 (I2) to Acorn Relay port 2 N/O output - Set in wizard to REV (Reverse)
Pin 8 connect to 24v
Pin 9 connect to 0v (DC common)

T1 (Spindle Driver)
Pin 6 (FC) to Acorn Analog Output 0v (common)
Pin 4 (FI) to Acorn Analog 0~10v

With your driver powered up (always with motor connected) go to An configuration.
A1.23 should be currently set to 1 (FV input) set this to 2 (FI input, T1 pin 4).
A2.00 set to 0, for terminal input.
A2.01 set to 1, for I1 Forward & I2 Reverse
A2.02 set to 1, for unipolarity (0~10v)
A2.15 set to 0, for analog speed control

The cable from Acorn analog output is recommended to be a shielded fig8 with the shield grounded, also Kieth has posted some technical bulletins about using zenner diodes & snubbers for noise suppression.

Best of luck,
Michael

Look at page 106 6.1.1
http://www.ctbservo.com/UpLoadFiles/Oth ... 091446.pdf

The drive is wired ±10V analog voltage
The box below the first shows 0~10V analog voltage and the configuration needed to make the drive work using this setup.
My drive has 4 buttons and all the examples in the manual has 5 buttons.
I tried to get into the A section to configure the drive but it's not there. I get "An" that indicates password invalid per the manual.

The trans former has inputs for 240V and inputs +-5% of 240V. the out puts are marked 220V and I have confirmed that with a meter.
The motor is belted 1:1

[TRM]

The only thing I have to add is test the VFD and motor without connecting to Acorn first. Use an analog voltage, bench power supply or simple 1.5V or 9v battery as the analog voltage to the spindle does drive and use a jumper to touch to FWD to see if the spindle motor turns forward and then touch REV on the drive to see if it the motor goes in reverse. If so, then connect to Acorn. USE dry contact relay board on Acorn outputs. If you didn't get the relay board with Acorn order it or buy this one
https://www.amazon.com/Channels-24VDC-R ... ref=plSrch

Mdfly is an eBay seller and also has a website

Marty

I have this drive new in the box to used on my mill. You are saying it will run my spindle motor and with the correct encoder output my lathe spindle
motor will be done and I can move on the the Axes drives?
https://www.driveswarehouse.com/wj200-022sf

[TRM]

Done a little experimenting with the spindle motor today.
I hooked the spindle motor to 220v 3 phase and it run just like any other 3 phase motor. I checked the RPM and it's a 1800 RPM motor @ 60hz.
So I can run the motor with a regular VFD. For some reason I was thinking this was some kind of special motor that needed a special drive.
My question is how can this motor weigh 60lbs and be rated 3hp and the 3hp Baldor motor on my mill is 100lbs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myWC9srPBKo

My RPM meter was a tad shy of 1800 rpm. The motor data plate has it rated at 2000 rpm @ 60hz. What do you guys think about the 200 rpm difference?
It was drawing 6.7,7.1,7.0 amps depending on what leg I was testing. I swapped 2 legs and it changed direction just as any 3 phase motor will do.

[martyscncgarage]

Standard 3 phase motor. That's why I suggested the GS3 from Automation Direct.
Marty

[TRM]

I seen you using the Huanyang drives on YouTube. It had me thinking why you didn't recommend one of those.
I opened and saved the AD link you posted. I haven't looked into that drive.
If the guy I contacted at CTB can't get me the correct manual and password to configure the CTB drive I will move forward with a stranded VFD.

Let's talk about encoders now. The motor has one and the machine has one.
This link breaks down the motor part#. The table is at the bottom of the page. The encoder on my motor is code G.
Can I use the encoder that is in the motor?
http://www.ctbservo.com/Products/delita ... vs=&id=121

This is the encoder that is belted to the machine spindle. Will this one work?

[mick41zxr]

Alot of those motors are Permanent Magnet motors, that being said there are many VFD's that can run PM motors.
The reason it is lighter is the Permanent Magnets can generate a stronger field that the induction coil on a normal 3 phase motor.
The amount of copper winding's in the induction coil can be very heavy.

Does the GS3 have an encoder feedback card to make it closed loop vector control & can the GS3 run PM motor? Otherwise the encode may be able to fed straight to Acorn & motor run as a sensor-less vector.
I think the Delta A1000 has an auto-tune routine for PM motors & an optional card for encoder feedback, but they can be a little pricey.

TRM,
6.1.1 is exactly how the motor would work. As Marty says try putting varying 0-10v voltages across the FV/FC terminals.
I don't think Acorn can do +/- 0-10V, only + 0-10v. that's why you need to configure to use relays to drive I1 & I2 in combination with FI/FC.
That being said you should be able to use a battery to trigger the FV/FC inputs to the drive. Marty has a very good video on bench testing like this.
i.e. if you put +5v across the terminals you should see ~4000 RPM at the motor, swap terminals around for -5v you get 4000rpm in rev.
You still could use Acorn to generate the 0~10v across the FV/FC, however you wont be able to run in reverse.

Looking at the 5 button inputs i think you just use it as if the >> or fast forward type button does not exist.
Sounds like your drive has password protection, is it possible to contact the original manufacturer of the machine for their default password as they may have changed it.

The nameplate on the yellow sticker in video is for your spindle fan. This should connect directly to the transformer.
On the inside of the connection cover you should have the pin configuration of the encode. From your picture its a 1024 line incremental encode.

All else fails can you do a full reset of drive back to factory default. However record as many settings as possible first (all the 1.xx settings).
Regards,
Michael

[TRM]

The drive Marty recommended from AD.
Sensorless vector control with autotune
Sensorless vector control with optional
encoder feedback card, for tighter speed
control.

I have this drive sitting on the shelf new in the box.
It is Sensorless vector as well but I don't think it has the option for encoder feed back.
https://www.driveswarehouse.com/wj200-022sf

If others are threading with induction motors and a VFD with the encoder reporting only to acorn why would I need the drive to have encoder feedback?
Thanks for explaining the PM vs induction motor difference.