Tool offset Gremlins

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Chipwelder
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:16 am
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Tool offset Gremlins

Post by Chipwelder »

Relearning set up on my lathe. CNC11 V3.14 I want set up new part F1-F1 Z axis , X axis. Pelims:all tool offsets 0.0, all tool wear set 0.0. My process to simplify my understanding of what is happening. I set up the part first. I start with a Z several inches out from actual part for test run. That works every time.F1-F1- Z0.0 tool 01. DRO Z goes to 0.0 WCS#1. Now I skim cut my part, F8 Set X, I input the measured diameter, tool number, then F10 to save. Still OK.Now I go to F2 tool Offsets. I have no idea where the phantom reference tool 00 is so I use T0101 and tab over to the X off set column, F1 brings up establish X diameter dialog and I input the measured size from part set up which also is still showing on the screen I now press F2, then F5,then F10 to measure and save, repeat for T02 threading tool. Tool 1 shows zero offset as it should nothing was moved from the skim cut, T02 shows -0.071" it is slightly shorter. So far so good, I understand the offsets, I understand that the DRO shows the actual tool position related to the part and the true distance the tool tip is away from X0.0 of the lathe for T0101. I run F4 run execute my program and everything looks good. Now I reset the Part Z on the actual part, just to be sure I retouch the X maybe I bumped the handle and it moved 0.005, I retouch, move away and measure, Now the part we have been waiting for. When I input the retouched measurement and hit F10 the correct measurement still shows in the part position box but the DRO X changes to a different number. Now I cannot get the machine to acknowledge the correct X tool tip location. I can do this same process on my offline CNC11 and it works correctly. I videoed the process to see what I might have done to corrupt the X position. WCS#1has not had any x change throughout this process only Z change when I moved over to the part. It is like there is a random number generator creating the part X diameter. the change is usually in the range of 0.050"-.090". In the attached photos carefully look at the line numbers. It checked the machine position at each G28 execution. At the program start and at the first tool change G28 goes to machine X0.0,Z15.0. At the end of the threading cycle it goes to X0.0375 and Z15.0 or something in that range but not the same each time. Z is correct X is wrong. I have to shut the machine down completely and disconnect it from the power source, then upon powering up, restarting controller loading file and setting up part and tools it will again run one time then it picks up the phantom X off set after the threading cycle and goes to the "new" G28 position. In the photos you will see a picture of the Part set up screen showing 3.0 ini X part position box but 2.9262 in the X DRO above. When you press F10 to save the input number it briefly flashes on the DRO then it reverts to the 2.9262. This number is often the T0202 offset amount but not always. I edited the T0200 from the last G28 line and that did not make any difference. The Centroid manual does not recognize T numbers as valid points go to, there may be some secret code that recognizes tool offsets and goes there instead, but i couldn't find it in the V3.14 Manual.

Mystery #2. When I execute my program the threading cycle cuts about 0.07" smaller diameter than the minor diameter programed for the part G76X2.11 Z-1.0 R0.0017 P0.07 Q0.01 F0.125. The g-code shows X2.11 and it cuts down to X2.04. Now that corresponds to the P parameter of thread ht. But 2.11 is minor diameter. P should be subtracted from X2.25 the Major diameter programmed in the intercom line on the detail screen. It would be nice if it just went to the programmed coordinate and I could use tool wear to adjust fit it up. may have edited this line and put 2.18 in as the minor diameter to get it to cut to 2.11 on the attached program file.

Last item. T0000 confuses me. Where is it? It shows up on the figures oin the manual and is discussed in the setting u of tools but appears to be an obsolete legacy process eliminated by using T0101 instead. Andwhy does intercontinental post process the G28 moves with the tool number and this phantom offset?
I am going to send this off as is as I have lost it 3 times with computer glitches and am tired of recreating it. I hope it makes some sense
F1 X axis reset part position beforeF10.jpg
CHUCK ADAPTER.lth
(816 Bytes) Downloaded 82 times
CHUCK ADAPTER.lth
(816 Bytes) Downloaded 82 times
CHUCK ADAPTER.lth
(816 Bytes) Downloaded 82 times
Now I know what "Place inline" means. It means insert in the body of the message at the cursor location I bet.

Appreciate any help
Attachments
Tool location after threading with T0202.jpg
Part position screen after F10 – Version 2.jpg
Machine 0.0,0.0 after homing.jpg
Lathe set up.jpg
G28 position after line 33.jpg


cncsnw
Community Expert
Posts: 4587
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Tool offset Gremlins

Post by cncsnw »

I assume you are running in position mode, but without a Report that is just a guess. Parts of what you report look a lot like a position-mode (precision-mode) issue that was supposed to have been fixed in v3.14.

Are you sure you are running 3.14 or newer, and not 3.12?

Does the problem only show up after you run your program, including the threading cycle?

Does your threading cycle include a non-zero chamfer amount?

If you change the chamfer amount to zero, does the problem stop happening?

Note that the difference between commanded position and actual machine position is the same (0.0369" radius, 0.0738" diameter) in your Part Setup picture and in your just-returned-to-G28 picture. A standoff error like this, which will not go away until E-stop or a power cycle, is characteristic of dropped counts in the position-mode pulse train going out to the servo drive.

What type of servo drives do you have? Yaskawa SGDB?


Chipwelder
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:16 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 102139, 20D7787D9392-0817226460
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Tool offset Gremlins

Post by Chipwelder »

I am still trying to get a proper post for BobCAD lathe V26-31. What they offer(T100, T400) outputs invalid g-codes which I havn't yet been able to out wit. If I am successful I will run a g-code version of this same file without the G28 return points and see what happens. Apologize for not attaching the back up file or the part file.

I will digest your comments above as well as try ot get the g-code version to run while you look over the report.

Thanks,

Greg
Chipwelder- Inspired by the efforts of 2 Phd Directors of local VoTech Tool and Die Program.
Attachments
Chipwelder.jpg
CHUCK ADAPTER.nc
(2.46 KiB) Downloaded 101 times
CHUCK ADAPTER.lth
(816 Bytes) Downloaded 95 times
IMG_1731.jpg
IMG_1730.jpg


cnc_smith
Posts: 241
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Location: Frenchville, PA

Re: Tool offset Gremlins

Post by cnc_smith »

Greg,

Send a report and the g-code program from BobCad you are trying to run. Please note what line you are getting the invalid g-codes on. You want to use the post for T400
Dana

When requesting support, please ALWAYS post a current report.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61


Chipwelder
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:16 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 102139, 20D7787D9392-0817226460
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Tool offset Gremlins

Post by Chipwelder »

I cannot attach the BobCAD file, my computer will not allow me to transfer it to your add files link. I will try to access this forum from another computer and see if I can upload it from there. The attached file 30 T400 post.txt is actually 30 T400 post.bbcd. You will have to rename it. That bobcat extension was being rejected. I am heading out to shop to try the suggestions you made, will report in later. Here is another shot at getting the report zip file to attach.

Thanks,
Greg
Attachments
cnc_backup.zip
(61.2 KiB) Downloaded 81 times
30 T400 post.txt
(87.75 KiB) Downloaded 66 times


cnckeith
Site Admin
Posts: 8942
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:23 pm
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Contact:

Re: Tool offset Gremlins

Post by cnckeith »

how to make a report.zip
viewtopic.php?f=63&t=943

also you can post files on google drive or similar cloud drive service and post link in thread instead of uploading files to forum.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html


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