Centroid Community CNC Support Forum

brittfussel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:10 pm

In my case the contractor has a set of NO contacts and a set of NC contacts. The NC contacts provide power to the motor for the mill. When you turn the switch to "Lathe" the contractor closes and provides power to the motor for the lathe. From what I read into your post yours does the same - switch to lathe and you can hear the contractor close. I'm surprised (or maybe I shouldn't be) that the Mill/Lathe switch is not already wired like my machine. Again, follow the electron as it flows through the wire and make sure it is going where you think it should.

You might want to take a look at the thread I started regarding the use of encoders. I found out this morning that the encoders I bought (2,000 PPR) will not work above 3,000 RPM. I plan to run my mill near 5,000 RPM so I'll need an encoder with a 1,200 PPR or less value. I have not looked at my lathe yet to see what it will be running at. If it is above 3,000 RPM I'll need to replace that encoder as well. The use of a correctly working encoder is necessary for constant surface speed turning, single point threading, and rigid taping.

Hope this helps.


Britt

I'll take a look at your encoder thread. I will need to figure something out for mine at some point. Not to worried about that quite yet. But I think my machine only goes to 2800RPM.

So from your diagram, the lathe/mill switch is labeled N2 and L2. And your N2 turns into N1 on cnc power switch.

Mine is labeled N1 from the ac contactor all throughout the switches. My switches jump around... a lot! I have jumpers all over the place pretty much connecting all switches together.

My "ac contactor"..as it is labeled, has the N1 and L2 wires on the very top which are going to my switches. It looks like your diagram is showing the same-ish. have no clue if they are NO or NC. But one side of the ac contactor has NC labeled on it. But I dont have anything labeled on it with NO.
My switches seem to be a little more complex for whatever reason. Id like to get it clean like yours. I would think that wiring it the same as yours would be fine, unless mine is wired like this because of the AC contactor. I see no other reason for it being so complex.

I attached my switch wiring just to demonstrate the amount of jumping it has. I know no one will be able to follow it but myself.

June 6, 2019

Kevin

Off the top of my head I would say the wiring is more complicated than it needs to be. I will try and follow it. But before I start I need to know how to read your switch diagrams. When a switch closes, is it horizontal (i.e. left and right) or vertical (i.e. up and down)? From how you drew the mode switch it appears it is horizontal. Please confirm that that is for all switches. I don't want to be tracing a circuit in the wrong direction. I'm reading your diagram to mean the mode switch has a set of NC contacts and a set of NO contacts? Or, are those jumpers across the switch and the contacts are always "closed?"

When you say "power block" do you mean the 48 volt power supply for the stepper motors? I'm assuming the 220 volts into the cabinet comes in at the terminals marked L and N in the lower left corner? In other words this is where you plug it into the wall? Or is this the VFD?


Britt

brittfussel wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:57 pm June 6, 2019

Kevin

Off the top of my head I would say the wiring is more complicated than it needs to be. I will try and follow it. But before I start I need to know how to read your switch diagrams. When a switch closes, is it horizontal (i.e. left and right) or vertical (i.e. up and down)? From how you drew the mode switch it appears it is horizontal. Please confirm that that is for all switches. I don't want to be tracing a circuit in the wrong direction. I'm reading your diagram to mean the mode switch has a set of NC contacts and a set of NO contacts? Or, are those jumpers across the switch and the contacts are always "closed?"

When you say "power block" do you mean the 48 volt power supply for the stepper motors? I'm assuming the 220 volts into the cabinet comes in at the terminals marked L and N in the lower left corner? In other words this is where you plug it into the wall? Or is this the VFD?


Britt

Britt, I drew it vertical. Exactly how it sits on my machine. So the top circles would be the top terminals of the switch and the bottom circles would be the bottom terminals of the switch. Then the switch itself is vertical controlling one side of the top bottom. uggh, clear as mud?

All my switches are NO/NO except for the estop witch is NC/NC

Power block referring to 48v power supply that the shopmaster came with. Yes the power (where it gets plugged in the wall) is coming in and goes to a terminal block labeled L and N.

I would have zero problems purchasing some new switches if it meant I could wire it up like your diagram.

KevinTaylor wrote: ↑Thu Jun 06, 2019 4:53 pm Ok, you all are correct about the power. I have no devices running 120. Everything is running off 240. I should have not assumed the the DRO and computer automatically had to be running on a 120.

I Did look at the acorn power supply, and it does say on it that it will take a 240 line in. So Then I would hook the ground to ground, a hot to L and a hot to N and that would be fine?

acorn-power-supply.jpg
acorn-power-supply2.jpg

Yes on the Acorn power supply that's how I have mine wired.

Dan

"In the off position both sides of the switch are open. And in the on position both sides of the switched are closed." This might be wrong you might be right on one side being NO and the other NC. I am going to go check this right now.

OK to confirm these switches are no/no and not no/nc.

EDIT:
All switches are NO/NO with the exception of the estop which is NC/NC

June 7, 2019

Kevin

When I speak to the "contactor" I am referencing what you identify as the "AC Control."

I was able to follow your diagram for the most part. Where I get lost is at the "mode" switch. From your diagram I'm seeing four sets of contacts and from your latest post they are all NO. On the top two sets of contacts there are jumpers from one side to the other and the top most row connects to the G540, Pin 1. This does not make sense to me as when the top contacts on the "mode" switch close it will send one leg of power to the G540. Is this correct?

I'm trying to follow the circuit that provides power to the coil on the contactor and makes it close. There is a red wire from N1 on the
"CNC Power" switch that goes to N1 on the contactor. This goes through the coil and out L2 to L2 on the bottom of the "mode" switch. When the "mode" switch closes it sends the power to the blue wire labeled S1. Where does S1 go? Somehow it needs to get back to L to close the 220 volt circuit to energize the coil to close the contactor. Also, is there a wire missing on your diagram from the bottom left side of the "mode" switch? The yellow S2 wire appears to be floating in space and does not connect to anything.

Across the bottom, L and N is the 220 volts power in as we have previously discussed. I'm assuming that R and S provide 220 volts, single phase, into the VFD. Where do S1 and S2 go?

My thoughts: I would wire the e-stop switch as shown on the Acorn diagram using the G540 as a stepper driver only. One side of the e-stop would go to the e-stop circuit on the Acorn board; the other side would go to the e-stop circuit (pin 10) on the G540. I would wire the "stepper motor" switch in series with the e-stop circuit to the G540. I would not have the e-stop control the power to the VFD (spindle) or the CNC power supply.

I would wire the line in (L and N) through the "Spindle Power" switch and when that switch is closed it would send power to the VFD (R and S) and to the "CNC Power" switch, which, when it is closed, would power the CNC power supply.

Since you only have the lathe half of this I think the "mode" switch is redundant. The contactor could be switched on by the "spindle power" switch. However, if you wanted to be able to disable the spindle motor to change stock without switching off the VFD, you could use the "mode" switch to do that.

I don't think you need to buy any new switches. From what you've described the e-stop switch is NC and all the other switches are NO. Besides, if they are still using the same switches as used on my unit, they are very difficult to remove. I wrestled with one of mine for about an hour before I got it apart. I'm not sure I can replicate the process let alone explain it.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. Let me know if I've confused the issue more and have any questions.

I've re-attached your diagram for convenience.


Britt

brittfussel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:19 pm
When I speak to the "contactor" I am referencing what you identify as the "AC Control."

I was able to follow your diagram for the most part. Where I get lost is at the "mode" switch. From your diagram I'm seeing four sets of contacts and from your latest post they are all NO. On the top two sets of contacts there are jumpers from one side to the other and the top most row connects to the G540, Pin 1. This does not make sense to me as when the top contacts on the "mode" switch close it will send one leg of power to the G540. Is this correct?

The mode switch is a little different, it has 4 terminals on the top and 4 terminals on the bottom.

Yes the mode switch is all NO.

so the s3 wire going to the g540 jumps to both sides, L1 right below that also jumps from both sides. My L1 wire also jumps to every switch I have on the panel. I think I am getting power from L1 ( as in L2 from ac contactor to L1 on mode switch). I am pretty sure the power from my switch to the g540 is on my stepper switch labeled emg going to pin 10 on the g540. I think the S3 wire in the mode switch is a signal wire for the encoder.

brittfussel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:19 pm I'm trying to follow the circuit that provides power to the coil on the contactor and makes it close. There is a red wire from N1 on the
"CNC Power" switch that goes to N1 on the contactor. This goes through the coil and out L2 to L2 on the bottom of the "mode" switch. When the "mode" switch closes it sends the power to the blue wire labeled S1. Where does S1 go? Somehow it needs to get back to L to close the 220 volt circuit to energize the coil to close the contactor. Also, is there a wire missing on your diagram from the bottom left side of the "mode" switch? The yellow S2 wire appears to be floating in space and does not connect to anything.

I think that L2 from the ac contactor going to L2 on the mode switch it is sending power to the L1wires. L1 from my mode switch is jumping to every single switch on the panel. The S1 wire is going to a terminal block and from what I can tell is actually form the encoder. The power for that encoder is coming from that terminal block, but I think the S1 wire is actually a pulse signal for the S3 wire going to the g540 on the mode switch. And this is why the S3 wire jumps both sides of the mode switch, as does L1.

The yellow S2 wire is also going to the terminal bock, It seems to do nothing. I personally believe that it would have been for the encoder on the mill spindle if I had the mill portion. This is why the S3 wire in the top terminal on the mode switch jumps across both sides and then goes to the g540 pin 1.

brittfussel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:19 pm Across the bottom, L and N is the 220 volts power in as we have previously discussed. I'm assuming that R and S provide 220 volts, single phase, into the VFD. Where do S1 and S2 go?

Yes L and N are Power in. Yes R and S are going to the VFD. S1 is going to the encoder, I dont think It is power, I think it is a wire for signal. I believe S2 is the same thing for the mill portion, which I do not have. I dont think S2 does anything.

brittfussel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:19 pm My thoughts: I would wire the e-stop switch as shown on the Acorn diagram using the G540 as a stepper driver only. One side of the e-stop would go to the e-stop circuit on the Acorn board; the other side would go to the e-stop circuit (pin 10) on the G540. I would wire the "stepper motor" switch in series with the e-stop circuit to the G540. I would not have the e-stop control the power to the VFD (spindle) or the CNC power supply.

I would wire the line in (L and N) through the "Spindle Power" switch and when that switch is closed it would send power to the VFD (R and S) and to the "CNC Power" switch, which, when it is closed, would power the CNC power supply.

Since you only have the lathe half of this I think the "mode" switch is redundant. The contactor could be switched on by the "spindle power" switch. However, if you wanted to be able to disable the spindle motor to change stock without switching off the VFD, you could use the "mode" switch to do that.

I don't think you need to buy any new switches. From what you've described the e-stop switch is NC and all the other switches are NO. Besides, if they are still using the same switches as used on my unit, they are very difficult to remove. I wrestled with one of mine for about an hour before I got it apart. I'm not sure I can replicate the process let alone explain it.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. Let me know if I've confused the issue more and have any questions.

I am going to spend some time to map this out as you describe, That sure sounds much better. I 100% agree that the mode switch really isnt needed. These switches are pretty much the last part I need to wrap my head around before I can say I am ready to do this. I know how to approach pretty much the whole conversion, once I get my switches in order.

I am also a little unclear as to why I need my N3 and L3 wire on the cnc power switch going to the 48V power supply?

June 7, 2019

Kevin

I have not completely digested your latest post but I wanted to comment on your last sentence.

KevinTaylor wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:24 pm I am also a little unclear as to why I need my N3 and L3 wire on the cnc power switch going to the 48V power supply?

The 48 volt power supply that came with your Turnado is what powers the stepper motors through the G540. The Acorn Meanwell power supply does not (and is not sufficient to) power the stepper motors. You could leave the CNC Power switch out if you want but you will then need to get 220 volts to the CNC power supply through the Spindle Power switch.

What I don't know (and have yet to figure out) is if there is a way to turn off the stepper motors and still be able to control the spindle with Mach3 with the current wiring diagram. The idea would be to maintain spindle speed with the Centroid CNC 12 software but move the axis with the hand wheels. With the Acorn board you might be able to do this with the Stepper Motors switch. Turning the Stepper Motors switch off should disable the G540 releasing the stepper motors (so you can turn the hand wheels) but not trigger an e-stop to the Acorn board. I will try this on mine and see what happens. I'll get back to you with my findings.

Hope this helps.

June 7, 2019

Kevin

brittfussel wrote: ↑Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:59 pm With the Acorn board you might be able to do this with the Stepper Motors switch. Turning the Stepper Motors switch off should disable the G540 releasing the stepper motors (so you can turn the hand wheels) but not trigger an e-stop to the Acorn board. I will try this on mine and see what happens. I'll get back to you with my findings.

My experiment failed. When I turned off the stepper motors it triggered a fault on the Acorn board and shut down the spindle. Oh well. I had to try it.


Britt