Centroid Community CNC Support Forum

If I remember correctly my Fadal has the encoder on top of the spindle motor not the actual spindle.

That is the same with ours. It has, I believe, a 1:2/2:1 belt range to achieve the High/low speed ranges. So, the spindle encoder may help the drive with indexing for the tool change and rigid tapping if I had the old card with whatever else installed. However, This would not suffice with CNC12's ability to rigid tap, as it needs a 1:1 ratio. Additionally, I may be wrong but in my research it appeared the o.e.m. encoder is the wrong type/incompatible with OAK/CNC12.

Francisar wrote: ↑Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:40 pm Based on the video description and Terry's own video channel it would appear Arrow Controls actually did the retrofit. Mitco machine contracted it out. Regardless, I would be very appreciative if I could get ahold of some sort of documentation on how that or any similar fadal retrofits have gone.

You are looking for the information, you should reach out to Arrow. http://www.arrowcontrols.com/contact/
They might sell you the information. Its a lot of work to do such an integration. That effort is worth a price. If I had to spend all that time to engineer, design, write the PLC and create a wiring schematic, I certainly wouldn't give my hours away. They make a living at it. Their time is worth paying for on something that complex. It saves you a lot of time and money as well.

I've had calls from customers asking for so much information so they can try to do it themselves. I'm happy to help to a certain point. My time and knowledge isn't worth something? And they want it now, not when I can get around to it after my day. That's why Centroid charges $90hr for support.
Marty

Francisar wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 8:53 am That is the same with ours. It has, I believe, a 1:2/2:1 belt range to achieve the High/low speed ranges. So, the spindle encoder may help the drive with indexing for the tool change and rigid tapping if I had the old card with whatever else installed. However, This would not suffice with CNC12's ability to rigid tap, as it needs a 1:1 ratio. Additionally, I may be wrong but in my research it appeared the o.e.m. encoder is the wrong type/incompatible with OAK/CNC12.

Encoders are relatively inexpensive. Go to Automationdirect.com. Line driver encoders are what you are looking for. 1000 line minimum.
Yes, they have to be belted at 1:1 to the spindle with a timing belt. No ratios.

Marty

martyscncgarage wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 9:57 am You are looking for the information, you should reach out to Arrow. http://www.arrowcontrols.com/contact/
They might sell you the information. Its a lot of work to do such an integration. That effort is worth a price. If I had to spend all that time to engineer, design, write the PLC and create a wiring schematic, I certainly wouldn't give my hours away. They make a living at it. Their time is worth paying for on something that complex. It saves you a lot of time and money as well.

I've had calls from customers asking for so much information so they can try to do it themselves. I'm happy to help to a certain point. My time and knowledge isn't worth something? And they want it now, not when I can get around to it after my day. That's why Centroid charges $90hr for support.
Marty

I plan to. I expect they follow the same motto as me.

Good, Fast, Cheap. Pick two.

martyscncgarage wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 10:01 am Encoders are relatively inexpensive. Go to Automationdirect.com. Line driver encoders are what you are looking for. 1000 line minimum.
Yes, they have to be belted at 1:1 to the spindle with a timing belt. No ratios.

Marty

One of my favorite sites. Thanks for the pointer! If it was your machine, what resolution would you choose?

1000-2000 line works (4000-8000 quadrature)

Be sure you check both the mechanical and electrical speed limits. On the Automation Direct Koyo encoders they have either 5000 or 6000 rpm mechanical limits and 100KHz or 200KHz electrical limits. More ppr (lines) is not always better. For example a 2000 line 100KHz encoder is limited to 100000/2000*60 = 3000 rpm electrically even though mechanically it might be rated to 6000rpm.

Centroid has previously stated that 1000 lines is sufficient for a spindle encoder.

tblough wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 4:54 pm Be sure you check both the mechanical and electrical speed limits. On the Automation Direct Koyo encoders they have either 5000 or 6000 rpm mechanical limits and 100KHz or 200KHz electrical limits. More ppr (lines) is not always better. For example a 2000 line 100KHz encoder is limited to 100000/2000*60 = 3000 rpm electrically even though mechanically it might be rated to 6000rpm.

Centroid has previously stated that 1000 lines is sufficient for a spindle encoder.

This was very helpful thank you!
After inspecting I changed my chosen encoder to a RE22IC. Should work well based upon both centroid and machine requirements.

How did this project turn out?

Unfortunately, after research was completed my proposal for retrofit was turned down. The proposal they chose involves closing the CNC side of the business and selling off their 4020, VMC15 and 6030 fadals. Most/all CNC work to be completed by PO. I will post here in the future if things change.