Acorn VS Tormach

[DannyB]

I'm with other Dan
We just priced this out for an old mill we are replacing in our employee workshops, and the 1100m premium is 26k, another 2-3k if we want a 4th axis.
This is for a *stepper based machine*.

I talked to tormach folks about the MX, and my expectation is it would be 33k+ easy.

Haas vendor is happy to sell us something that has literally the same stuff as the high end 1100m for about 5k more (and its 40 taper, 20 tools, and really really rigid).
About 10-15% off list.

Having tried *very* simple tasks on both (machining z axis and spindle carriage plates out of 7075 aluminum), my conclusion is basically that the tormach is a very very expensive toy. My ballscrew + servo woodworking router was holding better tolerances at higher IPM.

So yeah, if you are in the 30k range, i would never go tormach.
25k range i'd go used haas mini mill or similar.
15k range, maybe tormach.

They seem like the shopbot of the metalworking world - severely overpriced for what you get.

[Commotion]

U think they are over priced then try and get a price for one in Australia. I inquired about a price about a year ago. For a pretty basic 770 with tool changer, a guard and some other stuff it was over 40k aud. I understand there is currency conversion and shipping etc but the price was well above what I figured it should be. And I don’t think they can do rigid tapping either.

I ended up buying a 96 model mazak vtc mill for 25k instead. Been a brilliant old machine for what we need it for.

Since then I have retrofitted the hercus mill with the acorn and it’s a very capable machine for its size. From what I’ve seen it’s much quicker than a tormach mill, it rigid taps, it processes data nice and quick for 3d tool paths (much better than the vtc). I draw up something, machine it up, measure it up and it’s pretty much spot on right out the gate. I love it.

[Dave_C]

Wow, it didn't take long to hijack this thread: It was about Acorn verses Tormach, not Tormach VS Haas!

Tormach is a small machine with a specific market in mind. Haas is a large scale full production company that makes many machines. However if you talk to LARGE production facilities, they make fun of Haas and tell you their Mori Seiki machines runs circles around them.

So no one size fits all needs or markets!

One the other hand, if you like to build machines, then buy Centroids products and go wild! What's the fun of just buying someone else's finished machine?

So if I bought a Tormach, I'd still most likely take it all apart and do it with ACORN!

Can't say I'd do that to a Haas but then Haas is out of my needs and space range.

Dave C.

[Dan M]

My bad. I was just saying that for the price of the new Tormach you can get a Hass mini mill. And I personally would retrofit a manual table top with Acorn before I bought a Tormach. It would be a 1/4 of the cost and do what the Tormach can do. Or retrofit a Bridge Port if I had the space and have a more rigid machine. I think the Tormach would be great if you could purchase it without the electronics for a reasonable price and run it off Acorn. But you can't, trust me I wanted one before I decided to go with the router. I'd bet money my router will Mill aluminum just as well as the Tormach, and I can do much bigger job's, it will also cut at much higher feed rates.

Sorry again for the hijack I won't post anymore.

Dan

[Dave_C]

No problem Dan, I was just having fun. We're all good.

Dave C.

[DocsMachine]

My bad. I was just saying that for the price of the new Tormach you can get a Hass mini mill.

-And every time I hear somebody say that, I have to keep in mind what they actually mean is "for the price of a top-of-the-line, nearly-all-the-bells-and-whistles Tormach, plus ten thousand dollars, you can buy the smallest base-model HAAS."

Now don't get me wrong- like I said earlier, if I had a choice, myself, I'd get a HAAS in a heartbeat. I'd kill and help hide the body for a SuperMiniMill. And one of these days, I will- have a MiniMill, that is, not the killing thing.

But for a large number of people, that extra ten thou might as well be an extra half million- it's very much the difference between being able to barely afford a CNC mill and having no hope in hell of doing so. There's a ton of startups and garage shops and the like out there where a lightly-optioned 770 for $15K is achievable, but more than doubling that for a stripped-down HAAS is totally out of the question.

Yes, if you're looking to do full-scale production and have the capital behind you, by all means, get the HAAS- or a Brother, or a Mazak, or an Okuma, or whatever. But there's tons of tiny garage shops- like me- that are severely limited in operating capital, space and power, to whom a 770 or even a 440 make for a much better choice.

Speaking personally, the vast majority of my products are small aluminum pieces, and often in very small-number runs- like just 20 to 30 parts. I don't need metal removal rates measured in tons per hour, and saving two minutes per cycle with a faster spindle or quicker rapids doesn't mean much when you're only making 30 parts in total.

Doc.

[Angelos]

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/328117364 ... 2707614004

Or just get this frame pre-drilled for linear bearings, setup for bt30, price is good, shipping sucks.
Who has connections for shipping?

[rruizvial]

Tormach is a small machine with a specific market in mind. Haas is a large scale full production company that makes many machines. However if you talk to LARGE production facilities, they make fun of Haas and tell you their Mori Seiki machines runs circles around them.

Mori Seiki machines: Positioning Precision 0.006 mm (ISO 230-2).

My mill have this Precision:
Positioning Precision 0.02mm
Repeated Positioning Precision 0.01mm