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Re: Wrong tool-offset calculation with Emcoturn 120 ( Rear Tool-Turret)
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 2:47 pm
by Allin1Chris
I think the way your measuring this is not the intended use of the 3.05mm TT depth. The Diameter and depth of the TT is used for tool offset calculations. So when you have a front facing tool and it touches off the front and set your reference. Then you go to a tool that would touch from the other side, the diameter and thickness needs accounted for to ensure the Tool Offsets are correct, otherwise the rear facing tool would be off by the diameter or depth.
Due to how your measuring this, the effective thickness is 0 as your measuring on a non-physical device.
The reason this worked fine in 4.64 is i think in V5.00 (I may be wrong on exact version), we added support for arm style TT's that typically have sensors on 3 or 4 sides which needed the diameter and depth accounted for, it was not accounted for before.
Re: Wrong tool-offset calculation with Emcoturn 120 ( Rear Tool-Turret)
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:05 pm
by suntravel
TT depth should be calculated with nose vectors 1, 5 and 4
He used 2 and 3 so Z offset measured on the front of the TT should be the same regardless if ID or OD
Uwe
Re: Wrong tool-offset calculation with Emcoturn 120 ( Rear Tool-Turret)
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:08 pm
by Spartan117
Allin1Chris wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 2:47 pm
I think the way your measuring this is not the intended use of the 3.05mm TT depth. The Diameter and depth of the TT is used for tool offset calculations. So when you have a front facing tool and it touches off the front and set your reference. Then you go to a tool that would touch from the other side, the diameter and thickness needs accounted for to ensure the Tool Offsets are correct, otherwise the rear facing tool would be off by the diameter or depth.
Due to how your measuring this, the effective thickness is 0 as your measuring on a non-physical device.
The reason this worked fine in 4.64 is i think in V5.00 (I may be wrong on exact version), we added support for arm style TT's that typically have sensors on 3 or 4 sides which needed the diameter and depth accounted for, it was not accounted for before.
Sure, i know.
But OD as well as ID-Tools both should be probed by touching the front/face of the stylus.
So the 3.05mm should not be subtracted when measuring both of this tools?
If i would have switched from OD to a "right hand cutting tool" (SCLCR for example, coming from the rear, cutting-insert facing to the user) it would make sense, that the 3.05mm would become subtracted from the measured value, because that type of tool should be measured by touching from the rear/back of the stylus?
edit:
Ah, Uwe was faster. As always
Re: Wrong tool-offset calculation with Emcoturn 120 ( Rear Tool-Turret)
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:12 pm
by Allin1Chris
What tool did you use as reference location? The calculation is based on the vector of the tool used for reference i believe. So if it was opposite of the reference tool it would be added.
Re: Wrong tool-offset calculation with Emcoturn 120 ( Rear Tool-Turret)
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:19 pm
by Spartan117
Allin1Chris wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:12 pm
What tool did you use as reference location? The calculation is based on the vector of the tool used for reference i believe. So if it was opposite of the reference tool it would be added.
Reference Tool is Tool #1 with NV 3.
The SCLCL-tool on the photo i posted earlier. The same direction in Z of the cutting edge, only cutting from inside to outside instead of outside to inside. It's not a "rear facing tool" if i remember that name correctly
edit:
HA!
NV3... I will go looking, if i am right. If so, i did setup that first tool wrong and then this would be the "opposite" of 2 and so on.
Re: Wrong tool-offset calculation with Emcoturn 120 ( Rear Tool-Turret)
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:26 pm
by Spartan117
Oh, no, sorry, i was confused. NV3 is right, as i am coming from the rear and cutting to the left. Same as the ID-Tools with NV2, that are also coming from the right and cutting to the left.
So both are oriented the same direction in Z and should be calculated the same way.
If i am correct, only rear facing tools should be calculated with Z Stylus Size? I don't use any of that kind
Re: Wrong tool-offset calculation with Emcoturn 120 ( Rear Tool-Turret)
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 4:01 pm
by Allin1Chris
Spartan117 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 3:26 pm
Oh, no, sorry, i was confused. NV3 is right, as i am coming from the rear and cutting to the left. Same as the ID-Tools with NV2, that are also coming from the right and cutting to the left.
So both are oriented the same direction in Z and should be calculated the same way.
If i am correct, only rear facing tools should be calculated with Z Stylus Size? I don't use any of that kind
This does appear to be an issue with manual measurements, for now i would set the TT depth to 0. We are looking into it.
Re: Wrong tool-offset calculation with Emcoturn 120 ( Rear Tool-Turret)
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 4:15 pm
by Spartan117
Allin1Chris wrote: ↑Tue Jun 04, 2024 4:01 pm
This does appear to be an issue with manual measurements, for now i would set the TT depth to 0. We are looking into it.
Thank you for the update.
Re: Wrong tool-offset calculation with Emcoturn 120 ( Rear Tool-Turret)
Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2024 11:29 pm
by suntravel
A simple definition is:
If auto measure drives in -Z direction do not calculate Probe depth
If auto measure drives in +Z direction do calculate Probe depth
+Z is only used for nose vectors 1, 5 and 4
I also thought that probe depth is used for X in auto measure Z X, after touching Z tool travels recovery distance + 1/2 probe depth in Z, then it is touching off in X
Uwe
Re: Wrong tool-offset calculation with Emcoturn 120 ( Rear Tool-Turret)
Posted: Thu Jun 13, 2024 4:23 pm
by Spartan117
Any news on this topic? Could you reproduce that behaviour on your Centroid-Test-Lathe?