Deckel fP4A Dialog11

[fisaasif]

Hello, Centroid engineers. Have you ever retrofitted a Deckel FP4A Dialog11 machine with your Centroid controller?

Regards

[centroid467]

I cannot say I have done such a retrofit and I have not seen any Deckel specific documentation but from what I have read about those machines, a Centroid controller would do very well.

I read that model would have Siemens DC servos fitted with Bosch amplifiers. If you can get specifications for the servos and feedback devices as well as assess their condition, we can recommend a suitable Centroid system for this retrofit.

[cnckeith]

i heard rube goldberg has done one of these.

[cnckeith]

seriously though.

I did one of these machines about 10 years ago and went thru all the effort of updating the encoders (building adapters and covers and cables) and using the centroid AC/DC drive to run the big old siemens servos. I would not do that again, too much time and money and still have old motors to go bad.

If you are really in love with this machine the much better option is to install new axis motors and drives.
I recommend the Centroid Hickory CNC Controller and new motors and drives
https://shopcentroidcnc.com/hickory-cnc-controller/

even then it is a a lot of work to retrofit this machine since there are so many unusual features that present problems to overcome that other machines don't have.

[fisaasif]

Thank you for your response. I have already retrofitted that machine by Mars Enterprise Karachi (Centroid M400) with existing motos. Almost 90 percent of the work is done, except for the spindle RPM configuration. it has three gear change motors fitted with a spindle gearbox I don't know how to configure it with the controller.The Mars enterprise engineer also doesn't know it. the machine is not working due to this issue

[cncsnw]

Davis Industrial Solutions in Tennessee did an FP4NC last year.

Per my notes, that machine had an 18-speed transmission. Shifting was controlled by three motors, each apparently controlling one shifter slide. Each slide evidently had two or three positions, with eight input switches indicating slide positions.

We set it up to use just four of those gear ranges, with the variable-speed spindle drive controlling speed within the current range.

In a nutshell, the PLC logic receives a requested gear number (1 through 4) from the shift macros (M41 - M44), and then powers any or all of the three shifter motors until the respective slide-position switches indicate that each slide is in the correct position for the requested range.

If you want to discuss buying/licensing the PLC program and macro code from that project, send me a PM.

[fisaasif]

thanks for this valuable information yes I have a spindle RPM chart from the original FP4 manual and it shows that the rpm range is 0-4000 I need 1250 rpm for roughing, taping, and for big cutters like 80mm face mill machining and 4000rpm for finishing and small cutter up to 30mm dia can you guide me how to configure it and how much gear motor I need to operate to achieve this rpm. please check rpm chart

Davis Industrial Solutions in Tennessee did an FP4NC last year.

Per my notes, that machine had an 18-speed transmission. Shifting was controlled by three motors, each apparently controlling one shifter slide. Each slide evidently had two or three positions, with eight input switches indicating slide positions.

We set it up to use just four of those gear ranges, with the variable-speed spindle drive controlling speed within the current range.

In a nutshell, the PLC logic receives a requested gear number (1 through 4) from the shift macros (M41 - M44), and then powers any or all of the three shifter motors until the respective slide-position switches indicate that each slide is in the correct position for the requested range.

If you want to discuss buying/licensing the PLC program and macro code from that project, send me a PM.

[cncsnw]

Taking the 1250RPM range as an example, and using the chart you posted, you would need to:
1) Drive motor M5 until switch S38 is closed.
2) Drive motor M6 until switch S40 is closed.
3) Drive motor M7 until switch S42 is closed.

For the 4000RPM range, you would need to:
1) Drive motor M5 until switch S36 is closed.
2) Drive motor M6 until switch S39 is closed.
3) Drive motor M7 until switch S42 is closed.

[fisaasif]

Thank you! This is exactly what I needed to understand. Although I am not a technical person, I can grasp the logic as you mentioned in your previous post. However, the engineer from Mars Enterprises in Centroid, Pakistan (which I believe is trained by Centroid USA) took almost six months to resolve this issue. Unfortunately, they were unable to fix it, and the machine is still on hold as a result.

Once again, thank you. I need PLC logic to operate all three gears using M-codes such as M5, M6, M7, M41, and M42. Am I correct in this? If so, what would be the cost to obtain those PLC logic codes?

Taking the 1250RPM range as an example, and using the chart you posted, you would need to:
1) Drive motor M5 until switch S38 is closed.
2) Drive motor M6 until switch S40 is closed.
3) Drive motor M7 until switch S42 is closed.

For the 4000RPM range, you would need to:
1) Drive motor M5 until switch S36 is closed.
2) Drive motor M6 until switch S39 is closed.
3) Drive motor M7 until switch S42 is closed.

[cncsnw]

M5, M6 and M7 are not CNC M codes for gear shifting. They are the names of the shifter motors, on the diagram that you posted.

M codes to shift gears might be M41-M44, or might be others, depending on how many gears are needed.

Does your machine have a variable-speed drive for the spindle motor? Or is gear shifting your only means of spindle speed control?

Do you know whether the gear-shift motors are wired to outputs on your Centroid PLC?

Do you know whether the shifter position sensors are wired to inputs on your Centroid PLC?

Do you know what Centroid control board you have? Acorn? AcornSix? Oak? Hickory? MPU11+GPIO4D?

Can you make a Report from your control, and post it here?