New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

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dtananko
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by dtananko »

Thank you, Scott. Your work is amazing! Really piece of art. Good suggestion about feed rate for Z axes. I will try this trick. What acceleration you suggest instead of 0.5? This number is really cryptic to me, I cannot make any real sense out of it.
I will study your thread and will most like come up with more questions. Your work and result are really inspiring. Thank you for sharing.
Best Regards,
Dmitry
suntravel
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by suntravel »

Here is a document from HiWin about screwdrives, regarding acceleration and critical rpm.

https://www.hiwin.us/wp-content/uploads/ballscrews.pdf

On page 31 you can see the critical rpm for a 8mm - 1500mm screw with typical fixed-supported bearings is around 800 rpm.

Faster than this you will get vibrations.

So you should set up max. speed under 252 ipm (800x8/25.4)

For speeds under 800rpm a JMC closed loop servo will not outperform a JMC closed loop stepper which is easy to set up.

To be save with the ACME screws I would not use more than 200 ipm

Uwe
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by RogDC »

Sword wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 10:31 pm Next, and this is more for getting an opinion from the others here, but wouldn't putting ClearPath's on a acme screw driven machine be a bit much overkill? If you want closed loop, while not as sexy, how about a set of NEMA23 closed loop steppers/drivers. Although, it is fun spending other peoples money! :lol:
It probably is overkill, but if he upgrades the machine to ball screws later on or upgrades to a different machine he could reuse the ClearPaths and not spend his money twice.
suntravel wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 11:56 pm Here is a document from HiWin about screwdrives, regarding acceleration and critical rpm.

https://www.hiwin.us/wp-content/uploads/ballscrews.pdf

On page 31 you can see the critical rpm for a 8mm - 1500mm screw with typical fixed-supported bearings is around 800 rpm.

Faster than this you will get vibrations.

So you should set up max. speed under 252 ipm (800x8/25.4)

For speeds under 800rpm a JMC closed loop servo will not outperform a JMC closed loop stepper which is easy to set up.

To be save with the ACME screws I would not use more than 200 ipm

Uwe

200 ipm should be more than adequate for the 3D carving on your machine, as @Sword has pointed out 180 ipm is about the maximum speed for quality 3D Carving. As Sword has pointed out spend some time on the smoothing settings, When I was experimenting with settings on my machine, I ran multiple 3D carves on scrap just using different smoothing settings to determine what works best. They don't need to be huge or intricate, just with enough detail to make out the differences between settings.

It looks like you have good bones to get where you want to be with your machine as long as you understand the limits of the mechanics and design to the parameters of the machine for the best performance.
dtananko
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by dtananko »

Thank you, gents. You shared very valuable information for me that really explained the connection between motors and mechanical parts of the machine and gave me the basis to fine-tune it to its maximum ability. I believe the consensus is that I need closed-loop steppers as servos will not be able to reach its potentials due to my lead screws size and limitations and probably overall rigidity of the machine and its size. And I did not hear any vote for cheaper servos from JMC or Stepperonline. So, I will go with the set of closed-loop steppers (TS series) from Stepperonline. Also, I would be ecstatic to get up to 200 ipm (5000 mm per min) on my machine, as I currently run something around 100 ipm.
It is going to get a few weeks to get the motors in. I will be back to report my progress. Thank you all for your comments. Indeed, the wealth of knowledge in this forum exceeds any available info on the net.
Best Regards,
Dmitry
dtananko
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by dtananko »

Clarification question: based on lead screw limitation and for the closed-loop motor the top recommended working rpm is 800 rpm, that translates into 250 ipm, but what would be the suggested rapid movement without load (G0)? What numbers should I use in Acorn Wizard for max ipm on the axes?

Also, does anybody has suggestion to overcome Fusion 360 Hobby restrictions of G0 move?

Thank you.
Best Regards,
Dmitry
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by suntravel »

250 ipm is the limit, regardless if milling or for rapid moves.

Uwe
dtananko
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by dtananko »

Gents, just got my new stepper motors and benchtest them. Looks like everything works fine. Using Driver template in the wizard resulted in increased frequency of the Acorn from 100k to 200k and to 4000 steps per rev, which I adjusted on the motor drivers. I am ready to assemble them, but here are a few questions that I have before getting it all together:
1. I see that everybody is using breakers and contactors with snubbers. I am not electrical engineer and have no clue if I need them. I read and watched enough youtube videos to understand the reason for both - contractor and snubbers (SPD), but still not clear if I need them for the power of my machine. I have 2.2kW spindle with Huan Yang VFD as well as 4 3Nm motors. I have 2 36v/11A power supplies. Before I was driving the power supplies directly off the 110V without any problems. I am hesitant to over complicate the electrical connections. (BTW none of Acorn schematics shows contactors, only manual suggests to use them with the snubbers)
2. For initial setup I used 25pins breakout box and 3ft long passthrough 25pin cable to connect Acorn and motor drivers. I have read that it is preferred way to connect closed-loop motors. So, I have to boxes separated by distance - one contains Acorn with its power supply and relay card and the other one contains all stepper drivers and power supplies. The VFD mounted in the different location. I intend to keep it this way for simplicity and minimize any interferences. Let me know if you suggest consolidating all of them into one box and ditch the breakout box with the cable.

Thank you for all your help and support.
Best Regards,
Dmitry
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by tblough »

Everybody is using breakers, contractors, and snubbers for a reason. Yes, you need them.

Shorter wiring, with twisted and shielded pairs for step and direction, with no intermediate terminal blocks, is the best way to minimize problems from noise.
Cheers,

Tom
Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.
I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are where they should be.
dtananko
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by dtananko »

Gents, here is another confusion. I accidently bought contactor with 110v coil. I was planning to use the feed from the breaker to energize the coil and connect the motor power, but I am not sure that I can mix 24v circuit that goes into Input 8 and 110v for the contactor coil in the same e-stop button. I was thinking about getting 24V contactor, but in this case I need another dedicated power supply as I cannot use Acorn power supply and my drives supplies are 36v. Can anybody suggest proper course of actions in this case?
I have 2 36v power supplies feeding motors and 1 Acorn original 24/5v power supply. I have another 24v power supply, but I do not use 4 power supplies to run the machine. Please advice. THanks.
Best Regards,
Dmitry
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by RogDC »

Without seeing your schematic, it's difficult to understand how you are attempting to wire the E-stop.

Does your E-Stop button have two switches or one? What are the ratings on each E-Stop switch?

I would personally use an additional power supply for the contactor to avoid running 110VAC line power ( not specified if this is on a separate breaker or fuse to limit current) thru the E-Stop button.

You can check the specs of the Acorn board, but I believe 110VAC is outside of the spec that the Acorn Inputs will handle. It would probably release the smoke out of a few components on the board.
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