Centroid CNC Software Licensing Upgrade Announcement

[grossmsj]

If every release was similar to 5.2, I'd take option #1. That was a pretty big deal!
If they look more like 5.3 (including everything after 5.2), option #2.
These are pretty stark differences, but my personal satisfaction comes down to the value I'm paying for. I don't need to reflexively update.

[Black Forest]

Buy it once, use it as long as you like. Spend a few $$ if/when you want the new version.

nice way to quickly get the point across.


if we decide to not allow the skipping version for same price aspect of the License model. then i would be inclined to lower the price.

so here is a survey for everyone.

Would you like a lower price for new version features but have a new feature charge for each major release? (no skipping of version charges)

or

Higher price and allow skipping of minor version upgrade charges. (one cost to update a license version within a Major series. skipping example v5.30 to v5.50.0 which skips over v5.40.0)

I am going with Abraham Lincoln, "You can make some of the people happy all of the time. All of the people some of the time but not all of the people happy all of the time."

Do what is easiest for you Keith. What makes sense financially and reduces work on the support side of things.

[RJS100]

I second Black Forest opinion. I ran a small business for 35 years. A business is not a hobby even if you love running it. You have to do what makes sense financially, being sure you are being profitable every step of the way.

[Spartan117]

I'm more with the higher price and allowance for skipping, to be honest.
Better make your upgrades attractive through nice features that most of the users want, than through rising costs over the time, i think.
The other variant feels like a punishment for not needing the older versions that you have missed...

I am also afraid, if the "jump" to a newer version, maybe after just missing some of the smaller steps because of not looking after it for some time, becomes more and more expensive the longer you wait, many users won't go that step anymore at all.
And I'm in doubt that much people are willing to pay for stuff, that they didn't need or want.

And, if more users would avoid upgrades at all, just because of exploded costs for missing upgrades too long, you also wouldn't get that much feedback anymore. I don't think most of the Centroid-Users have their second life here in the forum and are always waiting for upgrades. For most of the users it is only a tool, that they are using to get what they really want.

Testing via dedicated testers is only one part of the game. Every tester only has his certain setup that won't change all to often, so maybe you would loose much feedback on the real reliability and functionality of your features, when less users would upgrade at all, just because it has become too expensive to go that step. And the longer they try to save up, the more expensive it would become?

If an upgrade is always the same (higher) price, a user knows and can calculate with it, how much to save for that.
And he can buy when he is able and willing to do so.
And if he needs more time to save enough, he still can catch up sometime. But if every version while he is saving money makes it more expensive, maybe he could never catch up?

Think of that bug of CNC12 with my Emcoturn a few years ago. I suffered from a bug in the tool-measurement-routine, when working with measuring ID-tools with a machine coming from the rear, if i remember correctly.
No one of the testers did find that bug, because no one used that combination yet. If bigger jumps in Version-history would cost more money, and therefor more users would avoid that step, such bugs could increase and draw a long tail through your software-history, making it more and more complicated to solve.
Just because of a shrinked actual-users-community that can give fewer feedback on seldom combinations?

Again, just my 2ct, not offending anything or anyone here. And please excuse the long postings, it's kind of hard for me to write the things how i really want them to be understood in english, so i hope to clear it up a bit with using more words^^

Marc

[suntravel]

Bug fixes are free, new features not,

And sure a testing person will not find all possible bugs, but I try my best and any bug I have not detected is a personal waterloo for me

Uwe

[WesM]

I'm happy to see Centroid is not going to a subscription model. It would seem like an odd choice for a CNC controller. Sure companies can get away with it for CAD or CAM software, but I'm unaware of any CNC controller companies doing that. Subscription models for specific hardware based systems tend to not work well.

The organization I work for is deciding on the purchase of a new bedmill right now. As the primary decision maker, I would avoid any machine with a control that required a subscription.

As for the $79 upgrade fee, I don't really see that as an issue. I'm retrofitting a machine around an acorn right now and I selected the control/software based on its existing capabilities, not the future promise of added features. Once the machine is up and running, I doubt I will ever update CNC12, barring some bug that emerges.

Now if some users are involved in beta testing for Centroid, it would certainly be a good faith gesture if the upgrade fee was waived for them. Maybe that could be a good way for hobbyists on a tight budget to provide centroid with a service/data, while also getting the software updates they want.

[Ken Rychlik]

I would say $49 for one version update, Maybe $89 for two or more?

Having said that, I am on Version 8 in vectric. They are on version 12? I actually paid for version 11 and they moved some of the buttons around, so I just enjoy using my older version.

I'm of the thought that if it ain't broke, I don't fix it. Also I use 5.1 because I despise having to hold another button down with the arrow keys to jog it around. I know there are workarounds, but on my routers, 5.1 does all I need very well.

If the auto update does not bring in older versions, I would be more reluctant to deal with it. I know lots of people say it's quick and easy, but it's quite a process for me. Buttons changing places and functions, are a thorn in my side as well.

Perhaps $120 service that includes the update along with having a tech take my report, and give me a report ready to run on the new version? I think that would be a larger income producer and if a centroid tech can do it in 10 minutes, that is a good profit.

[AshG]

Buy it once, use it as long as you like. Spend a few $$ if/when you want the new version.

nice way to quickly get the point across.

the only item up for discussion is:

charge for new features in each minor release or allow users to skip minor versions and have it be the same cost.

if we decide to not allow the skipping version for same price aspect of the License model. then i would be inclined to lower the price.

so here is a survey for everyone.

Would you like a lower price for new version features but have a new feature charge for each major release? (no skipping of version charges)

or

Higher price and allow skipping of minor version upgrade charges. (one cost to update a license version within a Major series. skipping example v5.30 to v5.50.0 which skips over v5.40.0)

If your open to honest feedback from someone in a leadership position at a company doing $1.9B in annual revenue (software and hardware).

You shouldn't have opened this up publicly for discussion. Internally raise your business case, know your numbers, revenue, variable margin, gross margin, EBITDA and calculate what you need to charge customers to grow the business at a sustainable rate, whilst remaining competitive and gaining market share against competition. Everyone understands you need to have recurring revenue from existing customers to grow and be profitable. So just do the math, do what needs to be done and don't be apologetic. If the value is there people will pay.

Everyone myself included has an opinion but at the end of the day its not our company. Remember it's worse for everyone if centroid doesn't do well financially as you cant reinvest into the product. No customer wants a prematurely obsolete, unsupported product from a company that under invests or went out of business.

business head off engineering/manufacturing head on.
For both acorn and oak, i do not upgrade unless i encounter a bug or i need/want a specific feature in a new version. That's regardless of charge or no charge. being a long time user pre Pro/Ultimate licensing model, this now feels like your going for a bit of a hybrid of the two licensing models.

Typically I'm okay with a slower development cycle (monthly/quarterly bug patching annual major release) and putting up with small known bugs that i can work around rather than have upgradeitus and play hunt the new bug on an expensive piece of material or risk crashing a machine. I'm quite happy to wait for others to test first then go into an upgrade knowing its a nice stable build, this means i will always skip versions. I'd hazard a guess that most industrial users feel the same.

[cnckeith]

Ash,
hello.
thanks for your input.
Masso did what you said and this happened.
https://forums.masso.com.au/threads/tho ... odel.4736/

opening up here on our CNC Forum about upcoming product changes informs and includes our customers in the course and direction of our products.
there are a lot of smart people that are Centroid fans and I like to get their opinions and feedback and roll that into my calculus.

[martyscncgarage]

Ash,
hello.
thanks for your input.
Masso did what you said and this happened.
https://forums.masso.com.au/threads/tho ... odel.4736/

opening up here on our CNC Forum about upcoming product changes informs and includes our customers in the course and direction of our products.
there are a lot of smart people that are Centroid fans and I like to get their opinions and feedback and roll that into my calculus.

Keith,
Wow, that Masso thread is a sh*t show.
I have to commend you for soliciting input from your users.

I read a post or two that Masso can't do rigid tapping and they haven't updated their software in quite awhile.

I know Acorn anniversary is coming up. You continually upgrade the software as well as hardware. It's the difference between Centroid and the others.

This is what Centroid was born to do 35+ years ago. CNC machine motion control. To provide a solution to upgrade obsolete NC and CNC controls on large expensive CNC iron.

Keep up the great work.
Marty