Wizard Assigning Random Output Numbers <answered>

[Adaptel]

I'm a noob and am really stumped trying to figure out why I cannot control my outputs like it is stated in the documentation. I have an Acorn board with an ETH1616 I/O expander board giving me 24 inputs and 24 outputs. I am so stumped. Here is an example of my situation:

I have IN/OUT 1-8 on Acorn board and IN/OUT 33-48 on ETH1616 board.
OUTPUT 47 is connected to my dust collection vac and Assigned with Wizard to RouterDustCollection
--Dust Collection Vac Button on VCP does not cause OUTPUT 47 relay to activate
--Issuing a command M94/47 DOES NOT cause output 47 relay to activate
--Through trial and error, I have learned that Issuing a command M94/35 DOES cause output 47 relay to activate

Some of my other outputs can be triggered with M94 commands with unassociated output numbers, and I cannot find a way to trigger others. For example:
OUTPUT 41 is connected to my air blow nozzle on tool measuring device and assigned with Wizard to AirBlowNozzle
--Air Blow Nozzle button on VCP DOES cause output 41 relay to activate correctly
--Issuing a command M94/41 DOES NOT cause output 41 relay to activate
--I cannot find any random output number that will activate relay 41. SO CONFUSED!

I have found random numbers assigned to my outputs and cannot figure out what corrilates to what. I am a noob and have poured over all the documention and have no idea what is going on. Please, please, please can someone point me in the right direction. Thanks.

[cnckeith]

i'm taking a quick look at this thread on my phone, first thought i had is to make sure you don't have an output forced OFF (underline)
Lucas in tech support will help you out in the am.

[cncsnw]

The numbers used with M94 and M95 are requests to the PLC logic. They have nothing whatsoever to do with the physical output relay that might ultimately be controlled by that command.

For example, request #1 (M94/1 and M95/1) is usually defined as "M3", a spindle run-forward command. That does not change, no matter what relay you assign as "SpindleEnableOut" or "SpindleFwd".

The dust collection function happens to use request #35. That does not change, no matter what relay you assign as "DustCollectionOn".

And no, there are no M94 or M95 commands that will directly turn a relay on or off, without going through the PLC program. The PLC program defines how various functions (such as spindle forward or dust collection on) should work.

There are a handful of PLC-supported functions that are intended for outputs that have no particular specifications, which you can just turn on and off without further ado. Those are "OUTPUT1" through "OUTPUT8", plus "M94M95111" through "M94M95126".

[Centroid_Jacob]

To follow up on Marc's explainer and to accomplish what you're trying to do, you need to look at your acorn_router_plc.src file in your C:/cncm directory using a text editor (Notepad++ is great) to determine the correct /XX to call with M94/M95.

Since you posted a report, I think I can point you in the right direction. The code blocks are snippets from the PLC source file.

The Operator's Manuals and the VCP Manual have good information regarding this.

M94/M95:

As Marc said, "They have nothing whatsoever to do with the physical output relay that might ultimately be controlled by that command."


When you call M94/47, you are actually triggering LaserDeploy_SV.

Code: Select all

LaserDeploy_SV                IS SV_M94_M95_47 ;(LaserDeploy_O)

M94/35 works because it's mapped to M35.

Code: Select all

M35                           IS SV_M94_M95_35; SET DustCollectionOn, M36 RST DustCollectionOn

M94/41 is mapped to M41, which is for spindle low range.

Code: Select all

M41                           IS SV_M94_M95_41 ;(Spindle Low Range)

What you want is M94/36.

Code: Select all

AirBlowNozzle_SV              IS SV_M94_M95_36; (AirBlowNozzle)

VCP:

Your dust_collector.xml button calls skin event 22, which is SkinCoolFlood_M.

Code: Select all

SkinCoolFlood_M               IS SV_SKIN_EVENT_22

But for dust collection, it should be 202.

Code: Select all

SkinDustCollection_M          IS SV_SKIN_EVENT_202

And with AirBlowNozzle, the VCP button is calling skin event 75, so that's why it works as you expect.

Code: Select all

SkinAirBlowNozzle_M           IS SV_SKIN_EVENT_75

I hope this helps.

[Adaptel]

OMG. That makes so much sense and I knew it was going to be something very obvious in hindsight. Ahhhhh learning curves. Now that I have started to look over the plc source file, things are becoming so much clearer! Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction!

[richardb15]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has been confused with turning relay outputs on and off with M94/M95 and/or VCP buttons. I still don't understand from my own readings and the notes above how one would for instance be able to turn an output relay on/off in a macro or using the MDI when the SV_M94_M95_XX isn't mapped in the plc source file. My example was for spinbrake which I have mapped in the Wizard to OUT9. It does not automatically have an SV_M94_M95_XX so the only way I've found, with cnckeiths help, to turn it on/off manually is by using a VCP button where it is one of the preconfigured options. I still don't know how to turn that on/off within a macro?

[Ken Rychlik]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has been confused with turning relay outputs on and off with M94/M95 and/or VCP buttons. I still don't understand from my own readings and the notes above how one would for instance be able to turn an output relay on/off in a macro or using the MDI when the SV_M94_M95_XX isn't mapped in the plc source file. My example was for spinbrake which I have mapped in the Wizard to OUT9. It does not automatically have an SV_M94_M95_XX so the only way I've found, with cnckeiths help, to turn it on/off manually is by using a VCP button where it is one of the preconfigured options. I still don't know how to turn that on/off within a macro?

Agreed. M94/ or M/95 9 would make to much sense to actually work output 9. I've learned to live with it and work around it.

The timing circuit for when the Brake is allowed to function does come into play. If you applied the brake in a macro while the spindle was running, it would not go well. The button is probably the safer way.

The more things a controller will do for you, the more complicated it is to understand, so that's the trade off. Design software is kind of the same way in that regard.

[richardb15]

The timing circuit for when the Brake is allowed to function does come into play. If you applied the brake in a macro while the spindle was running, it would not go well. The button is probably the safer way.

For sure, yes, use the Centroid logic and functions as much as possible were possible. The spindle brake timer needs to tie in with the VFD ramp down as well. The first time I ran my spindle with the brake I didn't realise the brake timer defaults to 250ms (when parameter 990=0, which it defaults to), that didn't really prove compatible with the VFD default ramp down of 3 seconds! I'd always rather use the electrical brake in the VFD than a mechanical one to slow down the spindle, less wear and tear on stuff.

EDIT - I realised the spindlebraketimer is T7, but I think that only delays the VFD starting to give time for the mechanical brake the release when an M4 or M5 is given. I don't think there is a timer to stop the brake from applying as soon as an M3 is given?

[Ken Rychlik]

I have used a resistor brake on the vfd on most of the ones I do. You might look into that if you want it to stop quick without a physical brake grabbing. Then there are some param changes in the vfd to tell it you have the resistor and then you can set the decel to a smaller value

[richardb15]

I have used a resistor brake on the vfd on most of the ones I do. You might look into that if you want it to stop quick without a physical brake grabbing. Then there are some param changes in the vfd to tell it you have the resistor and then you can set the decel to a smaller value

I have an electromechanical brake on the spindle motor, and an electrical resistive one via the VFD, but the VFD one doesn't really do anything as the mechanical one engages and stops the spindle so quick. I'd like to just use the VFD one for the first 2-3 seconds after an M3 command, then have the electro-mech one engage to keep the spindle still for changing ER collets etc but I don't think there is that functionality in the CNC12/Acorn6 to have a brake engage delay. Right now I'm just using the spindlebrake VCP button and drive the mechanical one off all the time xcept when I'm changing collets etc.