Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

All things ecat Hickory CNC controller

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spikee
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Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

Post by spikee »

Hello Everyone,

My name is Spikee, and I'm from the Netherlands. I've been quietly observing this forum for some time while searching for the ideal platform to base my 1992 Kitamura Mycenter Zero CNC project on.

A Little Background:
At the end of 2023, I finally bought a home and decided to fulfill my long-held dream of owning an industrial-grade CNC machine. After some research, I found a great deal on a 1992 Kitamura Mycenter Zero. It previously belonged to a medical device milling shop that was selling it due to an unspecified issue with the tool changer. I purchased it after only seeing it operate through a video demo, where it was shown moving and starting the spindle.

Here’s a video of me moving it into my garage:


Here are some pictures of it being unloaded from the truck:
Image
Image

Old fanuc controller running some random G-Code:
[Youtube]: https://youtube.com/shorts/UAeiuj-X69c? ... pzyrtDgYi-

Why Retrofit?
The machine was equipped with a Fanuc 0M-C CNC drive system, which is quite outdated and imposes several limitations. Operations are cumbersome, it can’t handle modern CNC codes due to slow processing, and it lacks Fanuc Macro B for custom scripts, making any modifications difficult. Simply put, the 30-year-old controller system is in dire need of an upgrade. Here's a quick video showing the old UI:


Why Centroid?
I evaluated several systems before deciding:
- EdingCNC: It’s user-friendly and I have experience with it, but it lacks Ethercat for easier wiring and implementation, and its jerk limitation features are minimal. It feels too hobbyist for my needs.
- LinuxCNC: I used this for my DIY router, The Mightymill. While it’s highly customizable, it essentially involves doing your own R&D, which can be time-consuming and problematic. It currently lacks jerk limitation.
- CSMIO/SIMCNC: This system includes jerk limitation but doesn’t support Ethercat, and I found wiring a hassle in my previous setups. It offers a better UI but has limited calibration options.

Ultimately, I chose Centroid because of its solid reputation, excellent after-sales support, Ethercat integration, jerk limitation, comprehensive calibration, and expansion capabilities. Although it’s pricier and the UI isn’t as sleek as SIMCNC, the investment is justified by the reliable performance, quick setup, and robust support.

The Plan:
- Remove the old controller, electronics, and servo motors.
- Sell these components as spare parts.
- Install the Centroid Hickory as the new CNC controller.
- Acquire new servos, AC drives, etc.
- Perform initial movements.
- Reassemble the enclosure.
- Begin milling

The CNC controller Setup:
- Centroid Hickory + Wireless MPG
- Delta B3 1KW Ethercat Absolute Encoder for X, Y:
This provides precise control and feedback for the X and Y axes.

- Delta B3 1.5KW Ethercat Absolute Encoder for Z (with Brake):
Enhances the Z-axis with higher power and includes a brake for added safety and precision.

- Delta B3 0.4KW Ethercat Absolute Encoder for ATC Carousel Motor (with Brake):
Manages the tool carousel with exact positional accuracy.

- Delta B3 0.4KW Ethercat Absolute Encoder for ATC Tool Swap Arm Motor (with Brake):
Operates the tool swap arm, ensuring smooth and accurate tool changes.

- Delta C2000+ + CMC-EC01 (EtherCAT) + EMC-PG01H SIN-COS Encoder Card for the Fanuc Servo Motor:
This setup adapts modern Ethercat communication to interface with the existing Fanuc servo motor.

Note: The Ethercat wiring sequence is randomly illustrated in my quick drawing.
Image

Current Status:
- I sourced the Delta components directly from China to take advantage of significantly lower prices. They are expected to arrive any week now.
- I had custom couplers made in China to adapt the 22mm Delta shafts to the existing 17mm ballscrews, ensuring compatibility.
- The Centroid Hickory controller has been ordered and is expected to arrive within the next two weeks.

-----------------
So one of the first thing I did was to check the runount of the spindle bearings; this was to insure a good basis to start the retrofit from.
Using the improper method, it is about 2um which is plenty good for my application:
Image
[Youtube]: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/JNNWe7zWfDw

Halfway point of ripping off the existing enclosure so i would be able to reach the underlying components:
Image

The Next challenge was to remove the existing coupler of the Fanuc servo motors. This was a supringl complicated feat.
I had to heavily modify a spanner in order to make it fit the coupler so I could remove it:
Image
[Youtube}: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Q-lSyDtE-N4

In addition to measuring the runout of the spindle bearings, I also did a quick test of the flatness between the X,Y VS the Z axis by means of putting an 2um indicator on the CNC spindle housing and measuring against a granite parallel.
Image
Image
The Max deviation on X was 6um so that is plenty good for me. No need to replace the rails. I also did a quick sweep on Y and that was also plenty good for me.

----
6th May 2024 - Quick update:
I spent some time on removing all the wiring out of the Kitamura and to clean the e-cabinet.
Got about 100kg of copper wire out of it:
Image

I ordered some custom belts and pullys to quiet down the belt drive of the CNC:
Image
This is 10 rows of PJ2.34 tooth profile; Total belt width is 56mm ; I think it should be fine in my application :lol:
The OEM belt setup was quite loud and required hearing protection at the higher RPM's.
From looking at the documentation, it seems like Kitamura actually offered this as an option for the 12k rpm setup.
The gearing of my new pulleys is done in such a way that the spindle can do 12k rpm instead of 8k. The bearings can support up to 18k rpm.
Image

All the old Fanuc items were removed and put on Ebay.
Image

Other than that my Delta servos are stuck in customs. The may holidays did not help with that...
My Centroid goodies will arrive soon (i used my own shipping method instead of centroid for some savings. It is however a bit slower).
----
12th may 2024 - Quick update:
I got my hickory in the post:
Image
Image
It is a nice bit of kit, very impressed about the packaging.

I 3D scanned the E-cabinet of my Kitamura. I had a bit of a challenge with the reflections and the Einstar was being a bit of a PITA with using markers, but i got the important bits in the end:

Image

In combination with some hand-measured dimensions I was able to come up with this:


I have requested the 3D models of the hickory and it's bracket so I can include that in my design.

The new couplers are quite beefy:
Image
Image

The existing motor-to-bearing adapters need a slight modification. The new coupler is about 1mm wider than the OEM one.
I have sent them off to a friend to add some ID clearance:
Image
Image

My delta goodies have finished customs proceedings. Just have to wait a few days for delivery.
----
17th may 2024 - Quick update:

I got my friend to modify the X and Y ballscrew to motor mount adapters as the new coupler is just a few mm wider than the old one:
Image
Image

My z-adapter still needs to be modified, but i will do that at another time. as it is quite a complicated procedure as i still need to figure out how to release the brake off the z-axis spindle, so i can slowly lower it to the correct height where i can unscrew the setscrew and release the z-axis coupler so I'm able to pull the motor off.

For the first time I connected the hickory and centroid.

I needed a bit of time to get used to the way how centroid works, but I got it going after fiddling around a bit.
Image
Image

Just need to wait for my goodies to arrive so I can proceed further.

----
21'st of may:

Goodies have arrived!
Image

About an hour of two later it was all working:
Image
Image



The instructions from Centroid worked without any issue.
The only issue I had was with the delta software. It was missing a visual C++ distributable file (msvcr120.dll , msvcp120.dll).
Installing the redistributable from microsoft myself did not work. After some googling i found that users of the battlefield 4 game have the same issue, and they linked to an installer which just installs all the redistributable visual c++ that are available... and boom it was fixed.

Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_4/ ... vcr120dll/
Program to fix the dll errors: https://www.majorgeeks.com/files/detail ... epack.html
----
22'nd of may:

Youtube video of the working setup:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_BM-abdW4oU

As the Centroid implementation went.. quite a bit quicker than other retrofits of mine in the past, I had a look at my delta C2000+ vfd and the Servo spindle it connects to.

Plugging in the Ethercat module (CMC-EC01) and the encoder module EMC-PG01H was quite straight forward:
Image

The encoder on the Fanuc Spindle:
Image

Signals description:
Image

As I was not sure that my encoder signals were actually doing this, I hooked them up to My Saleae logic 8 to analyze the signals:
Image
I'm not sure what the official naming of such encoder signals are. I would guess it being a sin-cos encoder?

What the Delta EMC-PG01H encoder board supports supports:
Image

From the little bit of research that I did, this should work :)
The only thing I worry about is the index signal (VZ) and that the voltage levels are a bit different.
Perhaps the VZ signal needs a voltage divider to make it 2.5 -> 0.5Vpp and the VA,VB signals might need a bit of a boost.

I would have tested it on the bench but unfortunately the Delta C2000+ needs 3 phase to run and I don't have that in the study.
So I will pick this topic up again after the items have been built into the e-cabinet.

----
3'rd of June:

I got some feedback from Jon @ picosystems, he said this should just work on the encoder card. So I will just have to try that.
I received my multi-v pulleys, and I was very happy that they fit perfectly:
Image

I designed this custom housing for the starting connectors I had laying around. Works great.
Image

It is quite a lot of work to do it "nicely" with connectors, plugs etc. But makes the build so much better.
Image

The e-cabinet is pretty much done. Just need to cust a hole for the fan and it should be pretty much ready to be fit in the cabinet.

Last night I had a quick try in fitting the servo motor on the X-axis. First I thought SHIT ... I have to make an adapter or whatever.
Image

But no that was not he case. The key just can't protrude past the first part of the coupler:
Image

The solution is simple, just cut the front part of the key off and it will work without issues:
Image
---
6'th of June:
Fitted the e-cabinet panels in the Kitamura:
Image

The Delta B3 motors are much shorter than the OEM motors. This causes an issue for the connector as it interferes with the casting.
So i had to cut out a small square in the casting in order to make it fit:
Image
Image

The Y connection also posed a challenge as the ballscrew fixed bearing block ends in the casting.
This makes closing the clamp on the coupler a bit challenging. But in the end it worked out:
Image
Image
This is really a place where you want to use a torque wrench. Because if you strip that thread, you are going to have to spend a hell of a lot of work in order to get that out and replaced. 5Nm it is.
Image

So then comes the scary part... turning it on and see if it can move.
And luckily it did. First slowly started with a 1000rpm jog and that went fine. Then later on I went up to 5000rpm (50m/min?).
The X axis ballscrew starts to whip a bit around to 4000rpm mark. The Y does not care.

X and Y running at 50m/min:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/A3OTxaQg1zg
Tonight I'll see if I can de-couple the OEM Z-axis servo and see what needs to be modified to that mount to fit the new servo.

---
10'th of June:
Small update, removed the Z-axis motor:
Image
Image
Image

The diameter of the Z-axis spindle key + diameter differs versus the X and Y one. So I had to order a new coupler.
Now basically waiting till that comes in.

In addition I have kinda bought a Celtic 14 Lathe :mrgreen: So if any more modifications come up, I can just do it myself!
---
10th .. of july ...already??

So it has been a busy time. Working on my renovation construction at the house.
here and there I have some time to tinker with the mill.

The lathe has arrived about a week ago:
Image

Considering i have no experience with lathes at all... it was a bit nerve-wracking to to the first few cuts.
But I'm getting used to it now.
Random testpiece:
Image

After that I put the Z-axis motor/bearing block unit in the lathe and bored out a bit more clearance for the coupler:
Image

This specific cast iron seems to be very hard. Quite challenging to do with my tiny 12mm boring bar.

It creates this fine dust and crumbling as chips:
Image

As you might also notice from this picture I have painted the column and z-axis. This makes it look much fresher versus the old and rusty paint that was on there.
Image

It was quite a pain to get this z-axis motor on there. But after a few hours of messing about I got it all fitted.

Next step is to hook up the z-axis cables and do some motor tuning. I'm a bit nervous about this due to the huge weight of the z-axis.
Good thing that i went from a OEM 400W servo to a delta 1.5kw one to compensate.

---
14th July:
All 3 axis move!
Image
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/rAciFDjlGRA
I limited Z to 16k mm/min due to it else not keeping up (bad tuning)
X and Y is set to 30k mm/min (but can go faster)

17th July:
I had to do a while lot of modifications but i got the ATC carousel working:
Image

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nBRl9puXqCk

Next step is to work on the ATC arm.
Last edited by spikee on Wed Jul 17, 2024 8:04 am, edited 19 times in total.


cncsnw
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

Post by cncsnw »

Delta C2000+ + CMC-EC01 (EtherCAT) + EMC-PG01H SIN-COS Encoder Card for the Fanuc Servo Motor:
This setup adapts modern Ethercat communication to interface with the existing Fanuc servo motor.
You may want to review that one with someone knowledgeable at Centroid.

My understanding is that spindle drive control is still discrete-wired from PLC terminals. I am not aware of any Centroid EtherCAT support for the spindle drive control interface.


cnckeith
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Re: Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

Post by cnckeith »

Right on!

Right now we have not tested a C2000 yet on the Ethercat daisy chain, but will be testing a Delta M300 via as soon as they ship it to us. :D
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
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spikee
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Re: Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

Post by spikee »

cncsnw wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:46 pm
Delta C2000+ + CMC-EC01 (EtherCAT) + EMC-PG01H SIN-COS Encoder Card for the Fanuc Servo Motor:
This setup adapts modern Ethercat communication to interface with the existing Fanuc servo motor.
You may want to review that one with someone knowledgeable at Centroid.

My understanding is that spindle drive control is still discrete-wired from PLC terminals. I am not aware of any Centroid EtherCAT support for the spindle drive control interface.
Yeah I'm aware. But I'ms sure we will figure it out. worst case I can always wire it the old fashioned way :D


spikee
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Re: Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

Post by spikee »

A small little update :)


cnckeith
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Re: Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

Post by cnckeith »

good move on the multi vee belt!
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html


spikee
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Re: Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

Post by spikee »

new update :)
yeah I'm curious about how much quieter it will become.


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Re: Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

Post by tblough »

When I changed from a double-v to J-section belt the noise was CONSIDERABLY less.
Cheers,

Tom
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I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are where they should be.


spikee
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Re: Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

Post by spikee »

good to hear. They use it in automotive for a reason i suspect. The bad thing is it can't transfer as much torque as an equivalent "normal belt", s you might need a wider one to accommodate for it. Good that mine has room for a 60mm belt. From the quick data i could find, that should be good enough for the peak torque of my machine.


cnckeith
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Re: Kitamura Mycenter Zero - DELTA Ethercat Retrofit

Post by cnckeith »

spikee wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 10:02 am good to hear. They use it in automotive for a reason i suspect. The bad thing is it can't transfer as much torque as an equivalent "normal belt", s you might need a wider one to accommodate for it. Good that mine has room for a 60mm belt. From the quick data i could find, that should be good enough for the peak torque of my machine.
i've built tensioners for increased torque transfer on multi vee setups.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html


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