Hopefully my last control rebuild

All things related to the Centroid Acorn Plasma system.

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scotg1107
Posts: 17
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Hopefully my last control rebuild

Post by scotg1107 »

I figured I'd share my rebuild of my table, I started years ago with a Bulltear table with CandCNC controls five years ago I lost the control on it and decided to go with a Masso unit it worked Okay for years but had its glitches, torch height control sucked, and that system was a little crude to say the least. I recently lost the Masso, I believe this was due to the table never being properly grounded. That's probably why I lost the first control as well.

Machine specs:
Still running 640 nema 23 CandCNC machine steppers with a 48 volt power supply
Gecko G251x drivers
custom built rotary fourth axis
I never had limit switches in the past or an E stop so I'll be adding these for this build.

Here is what I have going so far:

I bought a plastic enclosure for two reasons (1) it was cheap and (2) I like the idea of the front panel being clear so I could observe the LEDs on the boards without opening the enclosure.

After some posts on here I realize that plastic might not have been the way to go, I have all of my grounds tied to one busbar and will continue to follow hypertherm's grounding recommendations. I think that once the table is up and running I'll cut a new backer board out of either aluminum or steel but for now it's going to remain plastic.

Here is my current layout:

Gecko drive mount some time I will update this with a better heatsink and make it easier to swap out a driver but for now this will have to do.
IMG_4959.jpg
Control box laid out and almost done. I still would like to add an external plug for AC power coming in but haven't found one I like yet.
IMG_4958.jpg
I want this table to be as easily serviceable as it can be. I want to be able to unplug everything from the control box and pull it off without a bunch of unwiring. I 3d printed bulkhead plates for my stepper connections as well as for my PC connection, inputs, outputs and fiber optic. I will use Deutsch connectors for all connections going into the control box.

Here are a couple pictures
Screenshot 2022-12-19 195001.png
Screenshot 2022-12-19 194903.png
IMG_4965 (2).jpg
lastly I designed my own rotary axis for the machine and I currently only have one screen shot from the design I'll post more pictures of this later.
rotary design.png
Thanks for looking,
ShawnM
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Re: Hopefully my last control rebuild

Post by ShawnM »

I'm sorry to be the one here playing "Negative Nancy" again but I thought we went over this in your other topic. Using a plastic enclosure, plastic backplane along with bulkhead connectors on critical communication lines on the most electrically noisiest of all CNC systems, a plasma cutter, is just asking for trouble. Bulkhead connectors on the CAT 5 cable are not supported by Centroid and they state this in the install manual. A bulk head connector for the fiber optic cable? Is that a typo?

The backplane should be cut from galvanized steel, not aluminum or plain steel or plastic.

Please reconsider what you are doing now before it's too late or this will not be your last control rebuild.
scotg1107
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Re: Hopefully my last control rebuild

Post by scotg1107 »

ShawnM wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 12:10 am I'm sorry to be the one here playing "Negative Nancy" again but I thought we went over this in your other topic. Using a plastic enclosure, plastic backplane along with bulkhead connectors on critical communication lines on the most electrically noisiest of all CNC systems, a plasma cutter, is just asking for trouble. Bulkhead connectors on the CAT 5 cable are not supported by Centroid and they state this in the install manual. A bulk head connector for the fiber optic cable? Is that a typo?

The backplane should be cut from galvanized steel, not aluminum or plain steel or plastic.

Please reconsider what you are doing now before it's too late or this will not be your last control rebuild.
I'll admit I read through the acorn manual but didn't click on the hyperlink in the ethernet section about the bulkhead connector. I assumed and this was my mistake that if I used all shielded components that I would be fine. I'm not using a bulkhead connection on the fiberoptic its just passing through the plates.

I’ll also use shielded connections at the bulkhead
Joey
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Re: Hopefully my last control rebuild

Post by Joey »

Thanks for the update and pictures Scott. Really interested in your machine and the progress on the Rotary too! Have you tried Creating a google photo album? It would be easier to view the photos and videos in a Google Album. What's the dimensions of the cabinet? Pictures of the Table and rotary progress would be sweet.
scotg1107
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Re: Hopefully my last control rebuild

Post by scotg1107 »

Finally got my table up and running and I have to say I couldn't be happier. Here's what I have going on so far.

Some info on the control box, it is 20x16 and 8 inches deep I got it from amazon. As I stated before I really wanted the clear door to be able to look at the LED's on all of the boards without having to open it. If I have EMI issues I'll create a faraday mesh cage around the control at that point but for now with the little cutting that I've done I haven't had an issue. My gecko drive mount is less than ideal but so far appears to be working. My end goal for it is to machine a heatsink with the drives laying at a more accessible angle. I did change the back plane to help with interference and grounding. I also changed to shielded connectors for the drives and inputs. I have an idea in my head to seal up the pass through for the fiberoptic but more on that later. After I put some hours on the machine I'll tidy up the wiring in the box.

Now for some info on my current table, from the factory it wasn't wired per what hypertherms recommended grounding procedures, fixing that was the most time consuming part of the retrofit. I created new copper bus bars on the gantry as well as to the main table. I also moved my earth ground closer to the table and shortened my work clamp. I live in a small town and getting proper wire was difficult I ended up having to run 4ga welding lead for all grounds it was cheaper than paying and waiting for shipping 6ga wire, its red and I'm not real happy with that but I'll just add some black wrap later. I also 3d printed mounts for homing switches as well as for an Estop.

Lastly some information on my rotary setup, some version of the rotary setup has been working since I had the mach 3 system.

This is my current design;

The bearings on the rotary are cheap amazon bearing big enough to allow for a 2" through hole. The collet system I got from thingiverse and modified for a bigger timing belt pulley. I extended the gantry 24" so when I want to cut tubing, I pull the torch over to the side and begin cutting. The table is a 5' x 10' so I can currently cut a 9' piece of material without having to re-index it. The system is large enough to cut 6 inch OD tubing and I've done some cutting that size, the problem is that the stepper I have a 620oz isn't strong enough to turn heavy wall tubing. The collet and timing gear setup on the rotary are printed out of cheap PLA and have held up surprisingly well. The only time I've had issues with heat is when I hook up a fan to pull fumes through the tubing. My end goal after I'm happy with my stepper size, gearing and collet system is to mill everything printed out of aluminum.

On the gantry I used a lazy susanne bearing on its side with 3D printed holders. The bearing isn't designed to hold a load that direction so my fix was to print a system that holds roller bearings that the tubing can roll on. This works great for round tubing but my end goal is to be able to cut square and rectangular tubing.

I'm currently about two months behind on plasma cutting but hope to get the rotary back and operational soon. I'll post updates as I go.

Here's where I'll be updating the photos going forward https://photos.app.goo.gl/ig53yxfsqdHM9pEf8

Thanks for looking,
dseaver
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Re: Hopefully my last control rebuild

Post by dseaver »

scotg1107
I enjoyed reading your posts. Having seen you have had experience with CANDCNC control system encouraged me to reach out to you. I want to replace the candcnc control system with the Acorn controller. I have the 620 oz stepper motors and want to use them on the acorn upgrade. I contacted cancnc support to obtain a tech data/spec sheet regarding wiring etc with a negative response and was told to read the Bladrunner manual.

What are you using for stepper drivers?

Any suggestions for this new venture for me would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Dave Seaver
dseaver1@nycap.rr.com
scotg1107
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Re: Hopefully my last control rebuild

Post by scotg1107 »

Getting data for the motors is difficult, after searching through loads of different forums I was able to narrow down that the power supply should be 48 volts. There is one spec sheet for the motors in the manual for CandCNC but I think it is purposefully vague. My CandCNC system was running there own power supply which I scrapped and bought a meanwell power supply I can see if I can grab a part number for you. The original system I had ran Gecko 251x drivers. Hopefully you can save those off your original machine, make sure you run a 3.3k ohm resistor on the Geckos as well.
motor spec sheet.jpg
jcoldon
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Re: Hopefully my last control rebuild

Post by jcoldon »

first when i build controllers for plasma. I put all neg dc on 1 buss DO NOT conect that to frame gnd . only frame gnd is wall plug and gnd rod
i only ground 1 side shild wires to the dc neg buss that float gnd .. this method worked many plasma controller builds .

As for the cand cnc stepper motors can do 100 volts . the limit is the motor drivers . most cand cnc use gecko drives . Gecko can supply any wire info and drive spec . most gecko can do 72 volt 48 be fine . the gecko just require heat sinks fans to run cool . . keep in mind little motor like that requires reduction like 3 to 1 1 inch pinion or 5 to 1 with 1.5 inch pinion . that produce good enough plasma resolution and acceleration .. to get good cuts . don't do direct drive
scotg1107
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Re: Hopefully my last control rebuild

Post by scotg1107 »

So far plasma table seems to be running great, THC seems to work beautify, I also love the fact that the work coordinates from the last time the machine ran and are saved this allows me to keep a job open in sheetcam to keep nesting parts on the same job that was something on the old systems that never worked. It really cuts down on material waist. I also love the resume and rewind function that also saves material.

I am having a couple random issues however.

First thing is I'm noticing on random startup of CNC12 It is not registering my MPG pendant and I have to go back into the wizard and enable it does anyone else experience this glitch.

Second is I cant seem to dial in the float and Ohmic sensor offsets correctly. I have it set up now so if I do a torch touch off using ohmic then unplug it it always zero's the same. I even ran two torch calibrations one with the sensor plugged in and one without and they both calibrated correctly. For some reason though when I'm doing a job water trips the ohmic sensor so the float switch has to be used and it pierces at a very low height and crashes. I will admit that my last two controls never used Ohmic sensing and with the water table its looking like it may be more hassle than its worth.
repauli1
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Re: Hopefully my last control rebuild

Post by repauli1 »

scotg1107 wrote: Sat Jan 14, 2023 1:12 pm Finally got my table up and running and I have to say I couldn't be happier. Here's what I have going on so far.

Some info on the control box, it is 20x16 and 8 inches deep I got it from amazon. As I stated before I really wanted the clear door to be able to look at the LED's on all of the boards without having to open it. If I have EMI issues I'll create a faraday mesh cage around the control at that point but for now with the little cutting that I've done I haven't had an issue. My gecko drive mount is less than ideal but so far appears to be working. My end goal for it is to machine a heatsink with the drives laying at a more accessible angle. I did change the back plane to help with interference and grounding. I also changed to shielded connectors for the drives and inputs. I have an idea in my head to seal up the pass through for the fiberoptic but more on that later. After I put some hours on the machine I'll tidy up the wiring in the box.

Now for some info on my current table, from the factory it wasn't wired per what hypertherms recommended grounding procedures, fixing that was the most time consuming part of the retrofit. I created new copper bus bars on the gantry as well as to the main table. I also moved my earth ground closer to the table and shortened my work clamp. I live in a small town and getting proper wire was difficult I ended up having to run 4ga welding lead for all grounds it was cheaper than paying and waiting for shipping 6ga wire, its red and I'm not real happy with that but I'll just add some black wrap later. I also 3d printed mounts for homing switches as well as for an Estop.

Lastly some information on my rotary setup, some version of the rotary setup has been working since I had the mach 3 system.

This is my current design;

The bearings on the rotary are cheap amazon bearing big enough to allow for a 2" through hole. The collet system I got from thingiverse and modified for a bigger timing belt pulley. I extended the gantry 24" so when I want to cut tubing, I pull the torch over to the side and begin cutting. The table is a 5' x 10' so I can currently cut a 9' piece of material without having to re-index it. The system is large enough to cut 6 inch OD tubing and I've done some cutting that size, the problem is that the stepper I have a 620oz isn't strong enough to turn heavy wall tubing. The collet and timing gear setup on the rotary are printed out of cheap PLA and have held up surprisingly well. The only time I've had issues with heat is when I hook up a fan to pull fumes through the tubing. My end goal after I'm happy with my stepper size, gearing and collet system is to mill everything printed out of aluminum.

On the gantry I used a lazy susanne bearing on its side with 3D printed holders. The bearing isn't designed to hold a load that direction so my fix was to print a system that holds roller bearings that the tubing can roll on. This works great for round tubing but my end goal is to be able to cut square and rectangular tubing.

I'm currently about two months behind on plasma cutting but hope to get the rotary back and operational soon. I'll post updates as I go.

Here's where I'll be updating the photos going forward https://photos.app.goo.gl/ig53yxfsqdHM9pEf8

Thanks for looking,
Have you looked at Slew Bearings? They are pretty inexpensive. Love the setup.. great work
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