Restoring an old workstation - harddrive failure

[mavenblueprint]

Hi,

I'm attempting to restore/boot up a machine that worked twice in the last month before the IDE drives gave out and I haven't been able to recover those to image another drive. I'm essentially starting from scratch while reading this forum and seeing what others have done in the past.

## CNC machine
Phoenix RG510 XHD

## Workstation/computer
Appears to be a workstation from early 1990s with several ISA boards
Serial #2016 + (unclear what this number is, but it's beside the serial number on the back of the workstation: 002356)
This sits inside of a metal cabinet that hosts a CRT monitor + other boards + drivers.

Boot error

## Attempt 1 - restoring data from drive
I've attempted to restore data from IDE drives. While I was able to get the internal disks to spin, the drives did not mount on Ubuntu, macOS in order to start copying the data from the boot drive. I've purchased an IDE drive from eBay ( knowing it might not work since those are no longer manufactured ) which also failed in a similar way.


## Attempt 2 - IDE to CF card
SanDisk Ultra II CompactFlash 2GB
StarTech IDE to CF adapter w/ ejector ( red board - has only ability to change main vs slave drive )
StarTech IDE to CF adapter w/out ejector ( blue board - has ability to change voltage and other settings )

Attempting to image the CF card to FAT16 on both Ubuntu and macOS seemed to work with roughly the same steps ( here's on macOS ):

Code: Select all

diskutil list

diskutil unmountDisk /dev/disk6

diskutil partitiondisk /dev/disk6 1 MBR "MS-DOS FAT16" "CNCDOS" 0B

diskutil info /Volumes/CNCDOS/

sudo dd if= of=/dev/disk6 bs=64K conv=noerror,sync

Next, I'd attempt to use Unetbootin utility to image MS-DOS 6.12 ISO iamge which also seemed to work at least while checking the context of the disk on the imaging machine with Ubuntu/macOS.

However, once the CF card was plugged into the workstation the BIOS would error with "DISK BOOT FAILURE, INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER".
Shutting down the workstation and attempting to plug in the CF card back into the machine used to image the CF card makes the CF card unreadable ( no contents, no partition, etc.. ).

## Questions:

1. Has anyone run into something similar? Anything else I could try to revive the system OR am I missing steps above that are specific to the motherboards and modern CF cards ?

2. What's the path for moving away from this system to something more modern?
I'm having a hard time identifying which components inside the old workstation + the cabinet have modern equivalents and how to transition forward. Obviously there'd be a modern NUC/workstation, ?some other intermediate board?. I'd appreciate advice/insight on this question or pointers to links to read



Thank you for your time!

[cncsnw]

Assuming that the ID code written on the CPU7 PIC chip on the CPU7 board is "0209960848" (as you put in your user profile), then this control is probably serial number "M7073B", and it shipped in 1996.

A possible missing step, after installing the Compact Flash adapter and card in the control computer, is going to the CMOS Setup menus and either entering the hard drive geometry (cylinders, heads, sectors); or doing an IDE auto-detect; then saving the results. I don't think it was common for the BIOS to just auto-detect hard drives on every boot back in 1996, as they do now.

Another possible missing step is to make the partition on the compact flash card "active". A partition can contain a valid operating system and master boot record, but if it is not the "active" partition, then it won't boot. I am not familiar with the tools and procedure you used -- I usually use FDISK -- so setting the active partition might have been in there somewhere, but it is worth checking.


As far as upgrades, the clearest path to current software and hardware is to install an Allin1DC unit in place of the SERVO1 drive, PLC Lite, and CPU7 board. The Allin1DC does the job of all three of those components. In addition to the Allin1DC, you would need a new control computer (e.g. a NUC or similar compact PC, running Windows 10 or 11 and Centroid CNC12 software). If you still want a physical jog panel pendant, you could add a current pendant (pn11077); or you could just install a wide-screen monitor and use the "Virtual Control Panel" (VCP).

You would need to do a little rework on the AC power distribution, so that logic power to the Allin1DC is not interrupted when you press Emergency Stop, the way the current system probably shuts off logic power to the SERVO1 when you press Emergency Stop.

[cncsnw]

What is the code written on the round orange sticker on your SERVO1 drive?
See http://www.cncsnw.com/Drives.htm#SERVO1

A few of these Magnum/Phoenix systems were configured with a 25A drive output for the Y axis ("2T"), but usually the SERVO1 was not configured for more than 15A ("3T"). The Allin1DC is limited to 15A.

[mavenblueprint]

Thank you for the info, more details below.

The SandDisk Ultra II CompactFlash 2GB didn't work in any scenario (likely because it's not a "fixed" drive ) and I ended up ordering a Transcend 512MB Industrial for all theses tests:

Assuming that the ID code written on the CPU7 PIC chip on the CPU7 board is "0209960848" (as you put in your user profile), then this control is probably serial number "M7073B", and it shipped in 1996.

Correct, I've confirmed also via a Centroid paperwork that it's a serial number M7073B.

A possible missing step, after installing the Compact Flash adapter and card in the control computer, is going to the CMOS Setup menus and either entering the hard drive geometry (cylinders, heads, sectors); or doing an IDE auto-detect; then saving the results. I don't think it was common for the BIOS to just auto-detect hard drives on every boot back in 1996, as they do now.

1. 80486DX2 machine: The IDE auto-detect is not working while the CF-to-IDE is plugged in but in macOS I was able to get disk geometry as 1006/16/63 and I've seen documentation supporting the max CHS geometry supported on 386/486 arch as 1023/16/63 ( to be on the safe side )

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$ fdisk /dev/disk6
...
$ sudo fdisk /dev/disk6

Disk: /dev/disk6	geometry: 1006/16/63 [1014048 sectors]
Signature: 0xAA55
         Starting       Ending
 #: id  cyl  hd sec -  cyl  hd sec [     start -       size]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*1: 06    0   1   1 - 1023 254  63 [        63 -    1013985] DOS > 32MB  
 2: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 3: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused      
 4: 00    0   0   0 -    0   0   0 [         0 -          0] unused 

$ sudo fdisk -d /dev/disk6

63,1013985,0x06,*,0,1,1,1023,254,63
0,0,0x00,-,0,0,0,0,0,0
0,0,0x00,-,0,0,0,0,0,0
0,0,0x00,-,0,0,0,0,0,0

80486DX2 machine BIOS settings of CHS tested:

Code: Select all

1023/16/63
1006/16/63
987/16/63

Despite these settings on each test of flashed CF card with MS-DOS or FreeDOS, I haven't been able to get past the boot screen.

Another possible missing step is to make the partition on the compact flash card "active". A partition can contain a valid operating system and master boot record, but if it is not the "active" partition, then it won't boot. I am not familiar with the tools and procedure you used -- I usually use FDISK -- so setting the active partition might have been in there somewhere, but it is worth checking.

Out of the 4 different approaches only one resulted in what I'd consider successfully imaging a CF card with MS-DOS where MBR appears to be correctly installed and Active flag is true. However none resulted in the CNC computer to get past the boot screen.

Attempts:
1. Using VirtualBox to create a MS-DOS 6.2 VM vdk, convert to raw IMG and then flashing IMG via USB dongle.
* MODERN PC: WORKED - Attached CF in a USB adapter > selected boot from USB and it launched into MS-DOS
* 80486DX2 PC: HANGS - BIOS hangs and doesn't finish booting up.

2. UNetBootIn + Using MSDOS bootable ISO
* MODERN PC: HANGS - on the UNetbootin bootloader UI ( this didn't give me confidence it would work on the 80486DX2 machine )
* 80486DX2 PC: HANGS - BIOS hangs and doesn't finish booting up.

3. Using DD + MSDOS bootable ISO
MODERN PC: can't even read it, oddly the filesystem is replaced by empty/non-existing FS
80486DX2 PC: not recognized

4. WinOS 10: Rufus + FreeDOS ( since you can't image MS-DOS on WinOS 10 and I don't have WinOS 8.1 or lower yet)
MODERN PC: WORKED - howe ever this is a bare bones drive and doesn't have any MS-DOS utilities such as FDISK you expect from MS-DOS
80486DX2 PC: HANGS - BIOS hangs and doesn't finish booting up.

Next, I've ordered MS-DOS 6 floppy disks to see if I can install MS-DOS using the floppy drive on the 80486DX2 PC directly to the 512MB CF card ( CF-to-IDE ). Also ordered a Floppy Drive emulator to possibly use USB to boot from.

When you said you run FDISK, what does your computer setup look like?
x486 PC + floppy drive + MS-DOS floppy inserted and you run A:\FDISK to format the C:\ drive ( where C drive might be a CF card in a CF-to-IDE adapter ) ?

[mavenblueprint]

As far as upgrades, the clearest path to current software and hardware is to install an Allin1DC unit in place of the SERVO1 drive, PLC Lite, and CPU7 board. The Allin1DC does the job of all three of those components. In addition to the Allin1DC, you would need a new control computer (e.g. a NUC or similar compact PC, running Windows 10 or 11 and Centroid CNC12 software). If you still want a physical jog panel pendant, you could add a current pendant (pn11077); or you could just install a wide-screen monitor and use the "Virtual Control Panel" (VCP).

You would need to do a little rework on the AC power distribution, so that logic power to the Allin1DC is not interrupted when you press Emergency Stop, the way the current system probably shuts off logic power to the SERVO1 when you press Emergency Stop.

Thanks for the insight and more details. If we were to proceed in this direction, would this be a support call to Centroid to walk through how to go about it in more detail and/or are there community members that can be hired to be onsite/virtual for the transition?

[mavenblueprint]

What is the code written on the round orange sticker on your SERVO1 drive?
See http://www.cncsnw.com/Drives.htm#SERVO1

A few of these Magnum/Phoenix systems were configured with a 25A drive output for the Y axis ("2T"), but usually the SERVO1 was not configured for more than 15A ("3T"). The Allin1DC is limited to 15A.

The ink is mostly gone and I attempted to change the color settings on the image to make it easier to see, I believe this says:

Code: Select all

X - 4
Y - 2
Z - 4

If that's correct and I'm reading these numbers correctly and looking at the link you provided means:

Code: Select all

X - 4 - 12A
Y - 2 - 25A
Z - 4 - 12 A

If Allin1DC is limited to 15A and Allin1DC isn't a viable path, does that only leave us with https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... oller.html because spec says it's up to 60AMPs ?

[cncsnw]

An AC/DC-30 drive could be used as an add-on to the Allin1DC. It does not require an Oak board.

You could try running your Y axis at 15A (with just the Allin1DC), and only if that proves insufficient, install an AC/DC-30 as an add-on drive.

[cncsnw]

When I need to partition and format a DOS drive, I use an older computer (one with native support for the floppy disk drive) and a DOS boot floppy.

[aamir]

I upgrade several Dos system.
I install Linux 2.32V from Virtual PC on the compact Disk and put all parameters manually .
But need to know your PC support Linux or not.
Also I use existing installer standard servo1 +rtk2 PLC file .
In your case look like an extra PLC not sure standard will work or not
But as Marc said allin1dc is the best option .u will check your motor specs if less 15amps allin1dc is good solution.

[mavenblueprint]

When I need to partition and format a DOS drive, I use an older computer (one with native support for the floppy disk drive) and a DOS boot floppy.

Yup, this seemed to have been the easier path at least for preparing the CompactFlash card for testing on the CNC machine.

The one 128MB CF card that does boot and work on the setup workstation ( newer machine without ISA slots ) is still not recognized by the CNC computer as a readable drive.
I tried changing the CHS values in the BIOS to various parameters based on what fdisk geometry printed out ( via USB drive/reader on macOS ) and a few other guesses but still not getting booting from it.

I've attached images of the ISA VLB cards in the machine for reference.

Do you know by chance where to find documentation for these ISA VLB cards?
I noticed there's a jumper near the IDE pins that says IDE0 and IDE1

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JP3: IDE1 IOCARD
JP4: IDE0 IOCARD

OPEN :DISABLE
SHORT:ENABLE

The original and now dead 512MB IDE HDD spinning drive was working with no jumper blocks, but I'm now wondering if for some reason these would have a different effect with a CF card plugged in.