HURCO VM2 with Yaskawa-Oak Z Brake Problem

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FranzAZP
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:39 am
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Location: Milano - Italy
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HURCO VM2 with Yaskawa-Oak Z Brake Problem

Post by FranzAZP »

Buongiorno a tutti,
I replaced the control on a HURCO VM2 machine.

The machine has axes motors and drives Yaskawa Sigma2, and a CIMR-MC5 spindle drive.

It has a 16-position pneumatic swingarm tool changer.

The drives are set in Velocity Mode, they are models with an old software.

As a console, I used the All-in-one PC provided by Centroid.

CNC12 Mill v5.0 Ultimate is currently installed.

Attached, photos, drive settings and reports.

The machine works well, I tried everything without problems (is not the first machine...).

But I have a problem with the Z-axis brake:

when I press the emergency, the axis drops about 2mm before the brake blocks it.

I replaced the motor and drive with a Sigma7, the brake of the old motor was not in good condition.

We have a motor and drive regeneration center, but it wasn’t worth the expense.

Even with the Sigma7 the machine everything works perfectly, but the axis still goes down.

I tried to delay the power cut towards the drives with a delayed relays, but nothing changed.

I changed the Z brake release output command from this:
IF SV_AXIS_VALID_3 && SV_PC_POWER_AXIS_3 && Axis3DriveOk_M
THEN (ZBrakeRelease_O)

to this:
IF !Axis3StatusBRAKE_M
THEN (ZBrakeRelease_O)

This allowed me to change the Pn506 parameter "servo OFF delay time" on the drive.

I have setted the value to the maximum, but the problem is worse!

Has this ever happened to anyone?

Any suggestion would be helpful.

Thanks in advance

Emanuele

P.S.: soon I will also try with SigmaX drives!
Attachments
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cncsnw
Posts: 3763
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: HURCO VM2 with Yaskawa-Oak Z Brake Problem

Post by cncsnw »

That is strange. I would have expected Pn506 to reduce or eliminate the drop.

Have you tried some alternative "stopping method" settings in Pn001, Pn00A and Pn00B?

Does the axis drop a similar amount if you disable the Z axis using "M93/Z", instead of pressing Emergency Stop? That does not solve your problem, but it might tell you whether the problem is related to removing line power from the drive, vs. just removing the S_ON signal.
aamir
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Re: HURCO VM2 with Yaskawa-Oak Z Brake Problem

Post by aamir »

Hurco VM2 has 16mm pitch If I remember .I have a similar Deckel Maho m.c with the same problem I changed the servo On and break Logic as follows

1)I switched ServoZ_On on relay out9

Servo On seq
2)when SV_PC_POWER_AXIS_3 Is high then I on ServoZ_On and release the break after 100ms

Z Servo off
3)when SV_PC_POWER_AXIS_3 is low I hold the Break 1st and after 100ms off ServoZ_On

One more thing jogging is not allowed before Zaxis servo on .




That's the way I resolved the issue
With Large pitch ballscrew and in velocity mode I used this custom logic .
aamir
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:31 am
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Re: HURCO VM2 with Yaskawa-Oak Z Brake Problem

Post by aamir »

One more thing I noticed in precision mode default break logic works but not in Velocity .As I preferred closed loop I used only velocity and torque and may be in future EtherCat
FranzAZP
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:39 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: various
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Milano - Italy
Contact:

Re: HURCO VM2 with Yaskawa-Oak Z Brake Problem

Post by FranzAZP »

cncsnw wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 12:38 pm That is strange. I would have expected Pn506 to reduce or eliminate the drop.

Q.: Have you tried some alternative "stopping method" settings in Pn001, Pn00A and Pn00B?

A.: yes, but nothing changes.

Q.: Does the axis drop a similar amount if you disable the Z axis using "M93/Z", instead of pressing Emergency Stop? That does not solve your problem, but it might tell you whether the problem is related to removing line power from the drive, vs. just removing the S_ON signal.
A.: the drop is reduced by about 0.3 mm, nothing significant.

What if I tried to "physically" delay the SV-ON exit?

It’s very strange, all the other HURCO I prepared didn’t have this problem, all the settings of the drives are the same, the machine with the SIGMA2 drives set in velocity, is perfect.

I used the entire SIGMA series, from 1 to 7, but I never had this problem.



Grazie

Emanuele
cncsnw
Posts: 3763
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: HURCO VM2 with Yaskawa-Oak Z Brake Problem

Post by cncsnw »

What if I tried to "physically" delay the SV-ON exit?
Possible, but a little risky. If you add hardware to maintain S_ON for a short interval, the drive will remain enabled, but the analog velocity reference is not guaranteed. With current software/firmware it is likely to go to zero or near-zero, but you can't count on that actually holding the drive at zero speed. You would probably want to also include a circuit to switch the analog reference to be connected to analog common.

Of course, introducing relay wiring in the enable signal, and especially in the analog reference signal, makes your system more prone to noise and interference than it would be with an unbroken shielded cable all the way from the Oak to the drive.
It’s very strange, all the other HURCO I prepared didn’t have this problem, all the settings of the drives are the same, the machine with the SIGMA2 drives set in velocity, is perfect.
Is there perhaps a physical difference in the Z axis? More weight? Less friction? Less counterbalance?
FranzAZP
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:39 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: various
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Milano - Italy
Contact:

Re: HURCO VM2 with Yaskawa-Oak Z Brake Problem

Post by FranzAZP »

Buongiorno a tutti,
I delayed the SV-ON signal by 10ms, only when disabling the drive, everything ok.

As from your suggestion, I closed to the common also the reference.

I would like to thank everyone for the support.

I have a curiosity: since I installed version 5, the load meter bars have disappeared... has this happened to anyone?

Buona serata

Emanuele
FranzAZP
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:39 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: various
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Milano - Italy
Contact:

Re: HURCO VM2 with Yaskawa-Oak Z Brake Problem

Post by FranzAZP »

Q.: Is there perhaps a physical difference in the Z axis? More weight? Less friction? Less counterbalance?

Machine are very similar, the head is slightly heavier.

No friction or counterbalance
cncsnw
Posts: 3763
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: HURCO VM2 with Yaskawa-Oak Z Brake Problem

Post by cncsnw »

I have a curiosity: since I installed version 5, the load meter bars have disappeared... has this happened to anyone?
Check your value in Parameter 57.

For Oak-driven load meters on X, Y and Z, you need P57 = 7 (that is, 1 + 2 + 4)

If you also have an analog load signal from your spindle drive to H2, you will need to reconcile a difference between your PLC program and your CNC12 setup before you can make the spindle load meter appear. You have P35 = 6, indicating that the spindle "axis" is axis #6; but your PLC program writes the spindle load value to SV_METER_5.
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