Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

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krissondors
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Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

Post by krissondors »

Hello everyone!

This is going to be my first true CNC retrofit build. I did install an Acorn onto a desktop router before but this is going to much more complex due to all the other systems I have to get to work like the tool changer, tool and work probes, coolant system, pneumatics, etc.

Some context about the machine. It's a mid 90s year model machine with not too many hours on it. It has the Acramatic 2100 controller with Cincinnati (Kollmorgen) servos and drives. I picked up the machine almost 2 years ago for a really reasonable price from a company that used it for making prototype parts. They had it still powered when I went to pick it up, so they showed me all the operations of the machine to verify everything worked. Since picking it up, it sat in storage until I had the space and time to finally start working on it. My original plan was to start machining on it as is and then switch to the Centroid controller down the road but I quickly found out that I would be better off doing the retrofit sooner than later. The electronics and tech is so old, it really makes it a pain to work with and diagnose. Something as simple as loading a NC program on it is an ordeal. More recently, I turned on the machine one day and starting doing the homing cycle when I got an alarm. There is a "Spindle not ready" fault and I can see on the spindle drive it has an alarm, but the only way to know why it alarmed out is to hook up a computer via serial port and use the Kollmorgen Motionlink software to read the codes. The software is so old I cant get it to work on my laptop and I don't want to run a virtual machine with Windows 95 just to read codes so I made the decision to actively start the retrofit.

So far I purchased the Oak board and tools like label maker with heat shrink tubing and ferrule crimpers. Next thing to purchase is a VFD for my spindle motor. I'm currently researching what drive I need to be able to control the spindle for things rigid tapping the spindle orient control.

Thanks for taking the time to read and I will be updating the thread with pictures and updates!

P.S. Special thanks to Marty as well as Liviu from Centroid. They both has be huge help with my questions so far!
Attachments
20221114_191453.jpg
Last edited by krissondors on Tue Dec 06, 2022 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
repauli1
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Re: Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

Post by repauli1 »

Following, I have a 1998 750, and 500 waiting for retrofit
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krissondors
Posts: 54
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Re: Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

Post by krissondors »

repauli1 wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:02 am Following, I have a 1998 750, and 500 waiting for retrofit
Awesome! Are you "Bob" from Facebook? If so, we have talked before about the Arrow/Centroid Retrofit. I hope my build will help you out with your build!

Kris
krissondors
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Re: Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

Post by krissondors »

Here is the link to my build album for the retrofit. I will keep uploading my progress here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/bZV8i5SUtcXeNZyw6

So my first step now is getting the right VFD for my build. I asked on the Facebook groups about what VFD to use, and Marty recommended using the Delta C2000 VFD since it have orientation control, so I can align the spindle for tool changes. Do I still need a VFD with that capability if I am using the ATC PLC or is that unnecessary? Does anyone else have any input for what VFD to use? My spindle motor has a max of 5.5kw at 9,000rpms. Beside orientation control, is there anything else I need to look out for a VFD? Like closed loop control?

Thanks!
Kris
cnckeith
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Re: Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

Post by cnckeith »

hello.
yep for this type of ATC , the way to go is to have the VFD be able to orient the spindle by looking at the spindle encoder position so the tool holder dogs will be lined up when the ATC come into put the tool away.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
krissondors
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:28 pm
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Location: SoCal

Re: Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

Post by krissondors »

cnckeith wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 9:47 pm hello.
yep for this type of ATC , the way to go is to have the VFD be able to orient the spindle by looking at the spindle encoder position so the tool holder dogs will be lined up when the ATC come into put the tool away.
HI Keith,

Sounds good, I'm glad I got clarification on that! I came across a used AutomationDirect GS3 Dura Pulse VFD. It has a feedback card installed on it for closed loop, would that work to for orientation of the spindle? Is a VFD with closed loop control enough or does it have to have a specific feature that allows it to orient the spindle? Still a little unclear about that.
Here is a link to the drive and feedback card (Page 16)

https://cdn.automationdirect.com/static ... 080222.pdf

Really appreciate you taking the time for the response!

Kris
Last edited by krissondors on Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
cnckeith
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Re: Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

Post by cnckeith »

and see Oak ATC schematics such as this one.
https://www.centroidcnc.com/dealersuppo ... 098.r1.pdf
or this one
https://www.centroidcnc.com/dealersuppo ... 845.r1.pdf
for guidence.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
cncsnw
Posts: 3763
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

Post by cncsnw »

The Automation Direct DuraPulse GS3 is not capable of spindle orientation.
krissondors
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 10:28 pm
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Re: Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

Post by krissondors »

cnckeith wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 1:11 am and see Oak ATC schematics such as this one.
https://www.centroidcnc.com/dealersuppo ... 098.r1.pdf
or this one
https://www.centroidcnc.com/dealersuppo ... 845.r1.pdf
for guidence.
Okay, after looking at the diagrams more closely I notice how the inverter has the "Orient" and "Oriented" inputs as well as the encoder output for the Oak.
cncsnw wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 2:47 am The Automation Direct DuraPulse GS3 is not capable of spindle orientation.
Damn, that's a shame since I could have gotten one for a great deal. Is the Delta C2000 the only one on the market that will orient? Seems like that is the only VFD used for the orient feature

Thanks,
Kris
cncsnw
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Re: Cincinnati Arrow 750 VMC Retrofit

Post by cncsnw »

Considering price, features, performance, and ease of setup, the Delta C2000 is probably the preferred choice.

The Hitachi SJ-P1 can do orientation, and has received positive recommendations on this forum.
The Yaskawa A1000 with a PG feedback card will do orientation.
The Mitsubishi A500 with its PG feedback card did orientation. I assume Mitsubishi has a successor available with the same capability.
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