Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

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ashesman
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Re: Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

Post by ashesman »

Attached is an example file. I don't think it is a very big G code file (770 kB). Maybe that is considered a big file? It takes about 28 seconds to load (twice). This is every single time you want to run a part or test run. The program is the top operation on the aluminum part of the block pictured.

Here is a video of the file loading. Loading starts when the screen goes blue and ends when the error message comes up (I stopped mid tool change the previous test). https://youtu.be/bgJ8eWd2T4I

I forgot to make a new report but nothing has changed regarding the PC since the report I posted here https://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=6181 (about four posts down).
20220305_093302[1].jpg
Attachments
GraphTimeTest.nc
(771.01 KiB) Downloaded 53 times
cnckeith
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Re: Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

Post by cnckeith »

this is not a large program, but it is loaded with very short vectors. looks like tolerance settings and or toolpath type/selection/strategy in your cad cam system needs to be adjusted. there is no technical reason why such a part should be defined by a g code program with .001" length g code moves. toolpath generation strategy is to optimize g code for machine performance, the part in the photo can be machined with simple lines and arcs and does not require short vector g code (such as 3D surfacing does).

the g code backplot takes about 4 seconds on my machine for this file.

unrelated to graph speed.
the report in the other thread shows that you are running an old version of CNC12 (v4.18)
please update to the latest version of CNC12 if you have not already done so. as free support for v4.18 has ended.

Update Instructions.
Installation instructions for updating an existing installation of Acorn CNC12 to this version.

1.) Make screen shots of each Wizard menu of the existing installation so you have a visual record of the current Wizard settings. (Store copies of the report and screen shots in a safe place (even on another computer as an extra precaution would be a good idea as well)). Windows “Snipping Tool” is very handy for this. To find this program type in “snip” in the Windows search bar.

2.) Download and unzip the v4.64 installer file, https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... loads.html
EXTRACT the zip file, open extracted folder and with the Acorn up and running with a heartbeat, Double click on the installer.exe and follow the instructions to install CNC12. You may run into a Windows warning notification: Click “More Info” then click “Run Anyway” to continue.

3.) With the Acorn up and running with a heartbeat double click on the CNC12 Icon to start CNC12. CNC12 will update the firmware on the Acorn BBG. Follow the instructions on the screen.

4.) Install the Acorn License file from the Acorn Utility menu, “Options” , then “Import License”. Note: Mill, Lathe, Router License files used with older software will work with this version of Mill, Lathe and Router CNC12. If installing the new Acorn CNC12 Plasma a new Plasma Pro license file is required.

5.) Open the Wizard and re-enter the information and settings from the screen shots made in step 1
and press “Write settings to CNC control” and follow the instructions on the screen.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
ashesman
Posts: 395
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Re: Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

Post by ashesman »

cnckeith wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:19 pm this is not a large program, but it is loaded with very short vectors. looks like tolerance settings and or toolpath type/selection/strategy in your cad cam system needs to be adjusted. there is no technical reason why such a part should be defined by a g code program with .001" length g code moves. toolpath generation strategy is to optimize g code for machine performance, the part in the photo can be machined with simple lines and arcs and does not require short vector g code (such as 3D surfacing does).

the g code backplot takes about 4 seconds on my machine for this file.

unrelated to graph speed.
the report in the other thread shows that you are running an old version of CNC12 (v4.18)
please update to the latest version of CNC12 if you have not already done so. as free support for v4.18 has ended.

Update Instructions.
Installation instructions for updating an existing installation of Acorn CNC12 to this version.

1.) Make screen shots of each Wizard menu of the existing installation so you have a visual record of the current Wizard settings. (Store copies of the report and screen shots in a safe place (even on another computer as an extra precaution would be a good idea as well)). Windows “Snipping Tool” is very handy for this. To find this program type in “snip” in the Windows search bar.

2.) Download and unzip the v4.64 installer file, https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... loads.html
EXTRACT the zip file, open extracted folder and with the Acorn up and running with a heartbeat, Double click on the installer.exe and follow the instructions to install CNC12. You may run into a Windows warning notification: Click “More Info” then click “Run Anyway” to continue.

3.) With the Acorn up and running with a heartbeat double click on the CNC12 Icon to start CNC12. CNC12 will update the firmware on the Acorn BBG. Follow the instructions on the screen.

4.) Install the Acorn License file from the Acorn Utility menu, “Options” , then “Import License”. Note: Mill, Lathe, Router License files used with older software will work with this version of Mill, Lathe and Router CNC12. If installing the new Acorn CNC12 Plasma a new Plasma Pro license file is required.

5.) Open the Wizard and re-enter the information and settings from the screen shots made in step 1
and press “Write settings to CNC control” and follow the instructions on the screen.
I'm interested in why this file only takes 4s to open on your machine. It takes about two seconds to open on my laptop running the mill demo. Not sure why it takes so long on the machine. The PC on the machine is higher spec than my laptop. If it took 4s on the machine I probably wouldnt be complaining. But 28s!

I didnt bother with the cnc12 update as the notes showed there were no fixes that would benefit me. Is there something in there to improve the graphing speed?

As for toolpath generation. If I turn the tolerance up too much the machine becomes jerky. F360 generates big complex tool paths for adaptive strategies. Other modern CNC machines handle these tool paths fine according to my machinist friends.
cnckeith
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Re: Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

Post by cnckeith »

ashesman wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:45 pm

As for toolpath generation. If I turn the tolerance up too much the machine becomes jerky. F360 generates big complex tool paths for adaptive strategies. Other modern CNC machines handle these tool paths fine according to my machinist friends. < cnc12 handles adaptive strategies just fine, we use it ourselves in our own machine shop now for years. the g code posted is full of unnecessary ultra short vectors that give no practical benefit for any CNC control. >
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
cnckeith
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Re: Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

Post by cnckeith »

ashesman wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:45 pm

As for toolpath generation. If I turn the tolerance up too much the machine becomes jerky. <this doesn't make sense, something else is wrong/going on. what setting specfically are you adjusting? > F360 generates big complex tool paths for adaptive strategies. Other modern CNC machines handle these tool paths fine according to my machinist friends. < Centroid CNC12 handles adaptive strategies just fine, just because you click on adaptive machining cycle in Fusion 360 doesn't mean its going to produce decent G code, the code you provided is a whole magnitude shorter in vector length than is typical or necessary.
two prong attack, 1.) adjust the minimum vector length setting in Fusion to .25 mm, 2.) then try G code smoothing.

note: at 2000 line per second look ahead with vectors at .001" long you are unnecessarily going to be maxing things out if you want to go fast and smooth. you can drive around in first gear with the motor RPM pegged at 7 grand that will get you down the road for sure but not the best way.


Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
ashesman
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:54 am
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Re: Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

Post by ashesman »

Ok, thanks. I will have a play with my tool path templates and see if I can optimize the smoothing values. When I tried in the past the machine would shudder as it went around the corners with a lower smoothing value. I have since turned smoothing on in cnc12 which seemed to help a lot.

I am still unsure why my machine PC takes so much longer to draw than your PC or my laptop (running mill demo).

I did have a look and parts of that file was generated with 0.001mm tolerance and 0.0001 smoothing which is much lower than even I would normally use, 0.025 is OK for roughing. But, the bulk of that file is a circular ramp machining the taper that is made up of short lines as it spirals its way down. Not much I can do about that except change to a different toolpath strategy but I like that one! I don't want to reduce the tolerance much more as it gets too "steppy", currently 0.01mm. Note that tolerance is not the line length but is the allowed deviation from ideal.

Thanks for your feedback, it is appreciated. I am a typical engineer so can be prone to wanting to know every detail and have things just right!
cnckeith
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Re: Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

Post by cnckeith »

what do you have parameter 229 set to?

https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... manual.pdf
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
ashesman
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Re: Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

Post by ashesman »

cnckeith wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 10:03 pm what do you have parameter 229 set to?

https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... manual.pdf
Param 229 is set to zero. I don't know what it does though.

I tried running a file with a reduced g code line count (reduced tolerance) and the same one with lots of little steps on the machine. Both files seem to run OK motion control wise but what I did notice was interesting, the bigger file draws twice while the smaller file draws only once. The bigger file took around 15s to draw (twice) while the smaller file took around 4s to draw (once). Both files take around 1.5s to draw on my (ten year old) laptop running Mill Demo. Both only draw once in mill demo. Files attached.

Just as a side question, if my machine PC is struggling to process the files fast for drawing, does it mean it may be struggling to process them fast for motion control?
Attachments
BT30 Tightening Block Setup 2 Op 1.nc
(352.85 KiB) Downloaded 50 times
BT30 Tightening Block Setup 2 Op 1 reduced smoothing.nc
(66.93 KiB) Downloaded 52 times
tblough
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Re: Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

Post by tblough »

ashesman wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:42 am Param 229 is set to zero. I don't know it does though.
Heres the description of P229 from the link Keith kindly provided:

Backplot/Smoothing Mode: Smoothing may slow down the display of Backplot Graph-ics.
This parameter allows a faster backplot by not showing Smoothing. Note: It is useful to use Backplot and zoom way in to see the effect of the smoothing settings on the geometry before running the job. Experiment with this program a 90 degree angle g code move , turn on smoothing set 229 = 1 and take a look at the backplot of the tool path you will notice the rounding of the corner, adjust smoothing parameters and plot again to see the differences.

0 = Faster Backplot, smoothing may be active but is not shown in the backplot.
1 = Slower Backplot, but smoothing effects are visable on the backplot.
Cheers,

Tom
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I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are where they should be.
ashesman
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:54 am
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Re: Stop graph drawing each time I run a program

Post by ashesman »

tblough wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 8:13 am
ashesman wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 2:42 am Param 229 is set to zero. I don't know it does though.
Heres the description of P229 from the link Keith kindly provided:

Backplot/Smoothing Mode: Smoothing may slow down the display of Backplot Graph-ics.
This parameter allows a faster backplot by not showing Smoothing. Note: It is useful to use Backplot and zoom way in to see the effect of the smoothing settings on the geometry before running the job. Experiment with this program a 90 degree angle g code move , turn on smoothing set 229 = 1 and take a look at the backplot of the tool path you will notice the rounding of the corner, adjust smoothing parameters and plot again to see the differences.

0 = Faster Backplot, smoothing may be active but is not shown in the backplot.
1 = Slower Backplot, but smoothing effects are visable on the backplot.
OH, thanks. Yes, I have seen that in the manual before. I kept it turned off as drawing was already slow enough for me!
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