Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

All things related to Centroid Oak, Allin1DC, MPU11 and Legacy products

Moderator: cnckeith

ashesman
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:54 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

martyscncgarage wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:53 pm
ashesman wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:44 pm
martyscncgarage wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:32 pm ashesman, thank you for stepping into help out. Nice to see you have the background to help. It is tough when you can't actually be there and rely on the information being provided. We do the best we can do.

Marty
Thanks. Just trying to return the favor for all the people that help me!
Its a long shot but I have contacted Baumuller here in the US with a picture of the label provided to see if they can provide anymore information.
Too late today, maybe tomorrow.....
Marty
Great idea. I am sure it will be appreciated.
Oscar6
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:55 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: A901029
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

ashesman wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:23 pm Ok, so now that I can read the motor name plate... It has frequency and RPM ratings. Using the formula poles = 120 x f / RPM you can see that it is a four pole motor. 272 hz at 8000 RPM is 4 poles.

Actually, it does not line up exactly. 4 poles at 272 hz is 8160 RPM. That suggests it is rated with some slip. This and the fact they give a power factor value (cos) on the name plate suggests to me it could actually just be an induction motor.

That would also explain why their are no permanent magnet motor type parameters on the motor.

To be completely honest I am unsure what type of motor it is, but now I feel more like it is an induction motor. Sorry to confuse you! Without being able to spin it and feel for the magnets I just can't be sure.

You could run it as an induction motor and see how it goes. You shouldn't harm the motor unless you over current it.

You will definitely need to set up a well lit work space. You have a long way to go so best make it comfortable.

You can paste english manual bits here if you need help with translation.

Ashesman, you do not have to apologize for anything, you are doing me a favor enough for worrying about my subject, I continue to thank you for trying to help me, I already said at the beginning that this was a hobby for me, that I wanted to learn with all this And I believe that the only way to learn is by doing things and trying to solve problems, I believe that if I had my machine in your power I would have already solved the engine problem, so I apologize to you for not having more knowledge and to be able to give you more correct data, it is my fault not yours. In the end, one way or another, I think solutions will be sought. I'll wait a few days to see if Marty can contact the manufacturer and they give him more exact information. But if not, I will try as an induction motor to see what happens to remove the doubt. Thanks again
Oscar6
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:55 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: A901029
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

martyscncgarage wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:53 pm
ashesman wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:44 pm
martyscncgarage wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:32 pm ashesman, thank you for stepping into help out. Nice to see you have the background to help. It is tough when you can't actually be there and rely on the information being provided. We do the best we can do.

Marty
Thanks. Just trying to return the favor for all the people that help me!
Its a long shot but I have contacted Baumuller here in the US with a picture of the label provided to see if they can provide anymore information.
Too late today, maybe tomorrow.....
Marty

Marty, thanks for wanting to help me with this puzzle, I tried to contact the manufacturer in Europe but they are on vacation, to see if you have a bit of luck and can get some clearer information for this problem. I will also take your advice to look for new x, y, z engines, I am looking at some of the Delta brand and I will inform you, but first you have to try to make the main engine work if it happens. Thank you again for helping me.
Oscar6
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:55 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: A901029
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Good Ashesman, it is crazy what I am going to expose but I do not know, if the motor were made of magnets, if I bring a simple compass closer I could know if there are magnets with the movement of the compass needle, do you think it would work, or is it a Madness as I say, I do not know.
ashesman
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:54 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

Oscar6 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:07 am Good Ashesman, it is crazy what I am going to expose but I do not know, if the motor were made of magnets, if I bring a simple compass closer I could know if there are magnets with the movement of the compass needle, do you think it would work, or is it a Madness as I say, I do not know.
I don't think you will learn anything from magnets. If the motor has slip then it is an induction motor. So if you give it 50 Hz and it doesnt do exactly 2000 rpm (e.g 1950) then it has slip so is an induction motor. Try running it at a constant frequency in induction motor mode and see what happens. You will need an accurate tacho.
Oscar6
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:55 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: A901029
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Hello again, this week I will test as an induction motor at low revs, I am going to wait a bit, to see if Marty gets any response from the manufacturer. But at 50Hz it would have to turn at 1500 RPM if the motor is 4 poles, with the formula set before I think that's the case, correct me.
ashesman
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:54 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

1500 rpm at 53.7 hz as it says on the motor plate.
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by martyscncgarage »

From Baumuller:
"“VDOK Motors are very old and discontinued for a long time. This motor is asynchronous motor equipped with incremental encoder and analog tach generator. This motor used to be driven by old analog active power units and drive BUC/BUH 4. It is possible to drive this motor with digital drive using the incremental encoder if the encoder is good or can be found. “
Attachments
BUC-BUH4_eng.pdf
(3.19 MiB) Downloaded 93 times
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
ashesman
Posts: 395
Joined: Thu Dec 03, 2020 4:54 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

martyscncgarage wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:49 am From Baumuller:
"“VDOK Motors are very old and discontinued for a long time. This motor is asynchronous motor equipped with incremental encoder and analog tach generator. This motor used to be driven by old analog active power units and drive BUC/BUH 4. It is possible to drive this motor with digital drive using the incremental encoder if the encoder is good or can be found. “
Nice work Marty. So it's an induction motor. All good to set it up and make it go now!
Oscar6
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:55 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: A901029
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

martyscncgarage wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:49 am From Baumuller:
"“VDOK Motors are very old and discontinued for a long time. This motor is asynchronous motor equipped with incremental encoder and analog tach generator. This motor used to be driven by old analog active power units and drive BUC/BUH 4. It is possible to drive this motor with digital drive using the incremental encoder if the encoder is good or can be found. “
Thank you very much Marty for this information, it is very important to run the engine in good condition, there is nothing better than working with original manufacturer's manuals. Thanks again. This weekend I will connect the motor as induction. The encoder is 1024 pulses and I have the pins located, I will do some tests on the oscilloscope and I will put photos of the signals to see if it can work with the delta c2000 + drive. I already see that this is going to be a very long way, in the end we will see Yes it was worth it, thank you
Post Reply