Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

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ashesman
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

Dont worry about the number of poles. You can correct that later. The only thing is the motor wont spin at the right rpm. As long as you run the drive in open loop mode the poles wont matter. Once it is running, use a tacho to work out the rpm and correct the poles.
Oscar6
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Ok and thanks for helping me, this weekend I will connect the variator, first I will check the factory configuration that surely comes for an induction motor, I will try to read the manual to see how many parameters I have to change for a permanent magnet motor, and I will try to control it with a potentiometer and turn it to 20hz, and connect the oscilloscope to the encoder to the z signal to calculate the turns of the motor. Today I will study the manual of the variator to see if I clarify with the parameters. Thanks
Oscar6
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Hello again, tomorrow I am going to try to move the supposedly permanent magnet motor, but I have a question with the expansion card of the drive, I don't know which one to order for the encoder that comes with the motor, or find another encoder to make it better, to put a photo of the manual, because it says that all expansion cards are not suitable for permanent magnet motors, which do you think would be the best option to get a precise motor and orient the position exactly.
10.jpg
ashesman
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

First I would try running the motor without the encoder. Just run it in open loop vector mode. It will not be able to do position orientation but will enable you to get it spinning. Once wired, enter as much motor data as you know, then run the auto tune function. Keep a close eye on the motor current. You may need to enable the starting function so it can do pole position estimation before turning the motor.

I suspect your motor has ABZ/UVW signals but as they are not directly labelled on the schematic I cant be sure. Once the motor is spinning you can check on the scope to see what signals are present.

Just bite off one problem at a time. Make sure you do a good job of your wiring and be super careful around those high volts.
Oscar6
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Good, at the end this weekend the engine has moved after 30 years of sleeping, it is very exciting but I do not know if I did it well or badly, I was touching several parameters at very low revs, but when trying to enter parameters I got different things to the manual and I realized that the manual I had in Spanish was for the c2000 unit and the one I have is 2000+, the manual I have for the c2000 + unit is in English and it makes the configuration a bit difficult because in the place where the machine is there is no internet and there is very little lighting, let's see if I can adapt the place when I have more time and thus be able to take some photos and videos in conditions. The first doubt when trying to adjust parameter 5-33 which is the type of motor and when choosing a permanent magnet motor there are two options (SPM) (IPM) but the option of (PM) does not appear,
 IM: Induction motor
 IPM: Interior permanent magnet synchronous AC motor
 SPM: Surface permanent magnet synchronous AC motor
 SynRM: Synchronous reluctance moto
in the same manual it specifies that It means each motor but I did not know which one to put until I decided on (IPM) I do not know if I have it right, then I did an automatic adjustment and the motor rotated, I did not have time to measure revolutions and signals to know which encoder the motor has, I was working with 10,8,6 poles, it only lets you use even numbers for the poles, in some cases at 40 rpm of the variator unit the motor did not turn round but when you change the poles it seemed to improve and it turned more uniform. This week I will try to measure the signs that I have, but I still have many doubts.
At 40 rpm of the control unit, I never got 40 rpm in the engine, I do not know what I am doing wrong, the measurements were made with a stopwatch more or less, they were not very exact measurements, I did not have the appropriate means at that time, it is very little time I have.
Another question I have is the parameter of the image, I don't know which one is the right one. I could put 2.6 or 7.
00-11.jpg
The data that I have used for the motor are those of the plate but it gives me several options, I have put 230V, 272HZ, 8000 RPM, 26A, I do not know if it will be adequate, only the correct poles are missing.
spindle.jpg
motor.jpg
5-33.jpg
ashesman
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

Use of SPM or IPM is important. I can describe how to tell what type of motor it is but it is complex and requires use of a scope and a signal generator.

Try going faster than 40 RPM. You will be down in the part where it struggles to turn the motor at that speed. Start at around 500 RPM.

The reason changing the number of poles changed the behaviour is it alters the output frequency. Poles are always in pairs on the motor which is why you can only enter even numbers. I would expect 8 or 10 poles.

It will take a ton of tuning to get the motor running nicely. The low rpm and starting will be the hardest.
ashesman
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

Ok, so now that I can read the motor name plate... It has frequency and RPM ratings. Using the formula poles = 120 x f / RPM you can see that it is a four pole motor. 272 hz at 8000 RPM is 4 poles.

Actually, it does not line up exactly. 4 poles at 272 hz is 8160 RPM. That suggests it is rated with some slip. This and the fact they give a power factor value (cos) on the name plate suggests to me it could actually just be an induction motor.

That would also explain why their are no permanent magnet motor type parameters on the motor.

To be completely honest I am unsure what type of motor it is, but now I feel more like it is an induction motor. Sorry to confuse you! Without being able to spin it and feel for the magnets I just can't be sure.

You could run it as an induction motor and see how it goes. You shouldn't harm the motor unless you over current it.

You will definitely need to set up a well lit work space. You have a long way to go so best make it comfortable.

You can paste english manual bits here if you need help with translation.
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by martyscncgarage »

ashesman, thank you for stepping into help out. Nice to see you have the background to help. It is tough when you can't actually be there and rely on the information being provided. We do the best we can do.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
ashesman
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

martyscncgarage wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:32 pm ashesman, thank you for stepping into help out. Nice to see you have the background to help. It is tough when you can't actually be there and rely on the information being provided. We do the best we can do.

Marty
Thanks. Just trying to return the favor for all the people that help me!
martyscncgarage
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by martyscncgarage »

ashesman wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:44 pm
martyscncgarage wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:32 pm ashesman, thank you for stepping into help out. Nice to see you have the background to help. It is tough when you can't actually be there and rely on the information being provided. We do the best we can do.

Marty
Thanks. Just trying to return the favor for all the people that help me!
Its a long shot but I have contacted Baumuller here in the US with a picture of the label provided to see if they can provide anymore information.
Too late today, maybe tomorrow.....
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
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