Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

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Oscar6
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Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Hello everyone, I'm Oscar and I'm new to the forum, my English is not very good, let's see what I can do, I'm going to expose my project, which is my hobby, I want to update a machine that has the control broken, this weekend I have I have started to disassemble some parts of the machine that I can reuse, the machine model is an emco vcm 300, which mechanically looks very good. I already have an oak board and a delta c2000 + drive with encoder card for spindle orientation. I have to see if the motors can be reused, they are ac servo motors, with tachometer and encoder. I will put some photos to see what can be done.
photo encoder servo x y z
encoder servo.jpg
photo servo z
servo z .jpg
photo servo x y
servo x y.jpg
photo spindle
IMG_20210704_214952.jpg
The xy servos and I want to connect them to an estun 1kw edb-10apa driver, it works with three phases 220v and I think that the machine has a transformer that converts 380v to 220v if I'm not mistaken, and the z servo could be connected to a 3kw asd delta driver- b2-3023, the question I have is if I can connect the encoder in the photo that has the signals A, -A, B, -B, Z, -Z, 5V, GND to these drivers.

I put a youtube video of a machine like mine.

ashesman
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

This looks like a nice machine to convert. Myself I have spent seven months and still am battling motor and drive issues. IMO, the Centroid parts will do everything you need if you reconfigure, but motor drives can be a real hang up.

To determine if your encoders will work, you need to look in the drive manuals at the encoder port pin options. I know the delta drives I looked at only support their proprietary encoders, but I haven't read every datasheet. ABZ output encoders are incremental encoders. There is a sticky post in this forum all about encoders. 1000PPR is 4000 counts per revolution. The precision of your control is ever only going to be one count (or 1/4000th) of a revolution. The actual precision will depend on leadscrew pitch.

I didn't check but first thing to confirm the type of servo motors. AC/DC etc... They look like AC servo motors to me but without seeing the datasheet or wiring pinout cant be sure.

If you are using motors that are not from the same servo drive manufacturer (as you most likely will be), make sure the drives allow entering all the motor nameplate information like resistance, inductance, back emf etc. And very configurable tuning parameters. Some drives only allow selecting from a list of their motors which will probably not be close enough.

With the spindle drive, make sure it can actually do what you need for your type of motor. If it is an induction motor then the drive will probably work perfectly. If it is a permanent magnet motor, then spend some time studying the manual as a lot of features can be disabled (like position control and orientation) in PMM mode. I tried three different drives on my PMM that all claimed to work on PMM and still don't have a proper spindle orient! If you already have the spindle drive then wire it up and test it out as early as possible.

Make sure to double check on that transformer. You don't want to put the wrong voltage into the drives. For AC drives, the motors will see approximately the same voltage as the supply.
Oscar6
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Thanks for the quick response, I will follow your advice and the first thing I will do is test the spindle with the delta c2000 variator, see if I can get the spindle orientation to work, when I get the encoder card that will be very soon. The servomotors are AC, the drivers that drove them were 7.5 amps and gave from 0 to 200 v AC, I don't know if they will work with these drivers, I'll put the driver manuals to see if you can see something. From the original machine for feeding the motors, you can see the transformer from 380v to 220v, I think I could connect the new 220v drivers to that same scheme after the transformer.
transformador.jpg
DELTA_IA_ASDA-B2_UM_EN_20201015.pdf
(12.07 MiB) Downloaded 45 times
estum EDB_manual_V2_01.pdf
(4.69 MiB) Downloaded 46 times
ashesman
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

Oscar6 wrote: Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:07 am I think I could connect the new 220v drivers to that same scheme after the transformer.
DELTA_IA_ASDA-B2_UM_EN_20201015.pdf
estum EDB_manual_V2_01.pdf
What size is the transformer. To run say 5kW worth of motors at full power then you would need a transformer bigger than 5kVA. You can get away with a bit smaller as not all drives run full power at the same time. I use a 7kVA auto transformer. It is about 400 x 400x 300 and weighs so much I can hardly lift it. 415V to 200V.

If you put up some pinouts and diagrams of your servo motors it will be easier to understand their wiring. The Oak offers a few different driving modes to control the servo drives.

Pages 21 to 24 of the Estun manual show it accepting an incremental encoder. There should be setting in the drive for the number of encoder pulses. It shows also the use of UVW commutation signals. If your motors don't have these, there may be a thump as the drive starts while it finds the motor poles. Also need to check the drive can operate with ABZ signals only (called ABC in Estun manual). They overall wiring diagram shows it operating in step and direction input. Need to check if the Oak can do step/direction, or if the drive can be changed to quadrature mode as the Oak uses by default.

As far as I know, and looking at the CN2 pinout in the manual, Delta drives work only with their motors. They use a two wire digital communication signal between the drive and the encoder. I don't think you will be able to use these unless you plan on changing motors.

Hopefully some other guys will chime in soon, there is penty of experience on this forum with different drives and motors.
Oscar6
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

The transformer is 220v 26 Amps, you can see it in the diagram, I think it works because it was the one that fed the three drivers and the original variator. And the delta asd driver I think that if they are compatible with encoder a, b, z because they sell some cables for these drivers, I'll leave you a picture.
Attachments
12m-delta-ac-servo-1000w-1500w-cable-set-power-encoder-142336-en-G.jpg
martyscncgarage
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by martyscncgarage »

Save yourself grief, buy a match set of motors and drives compatible with Oak.
Centroid is selling some Estun 1Kw motors and drives pretty reasonably right now. You might check with them....
And buy the signal cables from Centroid provided they have them made up for the drives you choose....
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Oscar6
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Thanks Marty for the advice, but if I didn't want to have headaches, the easiest thing would be to buy a new machine and everything solved, but I don't want a new machine, I want to try to repair this one with the means I have, and if it can't be adapted something, I want to know why. What I do is like a hobby for me, what I want most is to learn by testing things, and see why things do not work, for now I will test the spindle with the delta c2000 variator to see what happens and when this is solved, I will continue with the x and z axes, I will try with the material I have and if it does not work I will think about what to do, whether to continue spending money at all or abandon this project and continue with another. Before buying something else I want to test the material I have and then we'll see. This weekend I will connect the three phases and the encoder of the spindle which is the same as the one published in the photo above but it is 1024 and I will try to make a spindle orientation, when this is achieved I will have to see if I can give orders to the spindle to I rotate the degrees that I want which is very necessary to turn the tool changer since it uses the same spindle for this function.I'm still not sure if the spindle is induction or permanent magnet, I can't get any VDOKFF 100S 43 spindle manual.I don't know if anyone knows any data about this spindle, it does seem that the delta c2000 variator can handle both types of induction or permanent magnet spindles, someone correct me. Thanks
ashesman
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

Make sure you work out what type of motor the spindle motor is before trying to drive it. The control method is quite different. PMM motors can be damaged permanently if incorrectly driven and over currented.

I am pretty sure you can tell by turning the motor by hand. An induction motor will rotate smoothly with no resistance. A PMM motor will have tighter spots for each pole. You will feel them as you turn the motor. The number of tight spots is the number of poles.
Oscar6
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Good, by hand it will be a bit complicated due to the size of the motor, when I turn it by hand it is not so smooth, the ideal would be to get the specifications of the motor manufacturer, I will try to find some information from the manufacturer before doing anything, let's see if I get something. If someone has a similar engine, the reference (VDOKFF 100S 43) would be of great help. Let's see if we are lucky enough to continue.
ashesman
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by ashesman »

You may need to remove the motor from the machine for the test. It should have obvious notches as ot rotates if it is a PMM. Shorting the power cables will make the notches more noticeable. You can also apply dc current to one winding and it should align itself if PMM. An induction motor should rotate smoothly with only the resistance of the bearings. You can spin an induction motor and it should keep Feee spinning.
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