Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by cnckeith »

always post a fresh report.zip so we have and can see (read) your latest configuration settings. thanks, k
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Hello again, today I have been making configurations in the z axis and I have managed to make the spindle rotate when it is coupled with the tool drum, I have achieved it by canceling the upper switch and configuring the upper limit by software, I can use this switch in the plc or in the macro to confirm the position of the spindle in the highest part when it is coupled with the tool drum or so I think. Here I leave the file of my current configuration to see if something is seen.
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Oscar6
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

Good again. This week I am going to try to control the speed of the spindle, I think I have to connect the signal to the encoder connector number 6 on the oka board and configure the parameters as the manual says. I have a question, my machine has two encoders, one in the motor and the other in the spindle. My delta variator uses phases a and b of the motor encoder and phase z of the spindle to control the motor and to position the spindle. Phases a and b of the head remain free. my question is if the oka board would work without connecting phase z and connecting only phases a and b of the head encoder. I don't know if it will work only with phases a and b if someone has used this configuration. thank you
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by tblough »

Centroid does not run closed-loop spindle speeds on any of their boards, so you do not need an encoder connected to the Oak. The Oak will output 0-10V (or ±10V, 0-5V depending on switch settings) which you connect to the VFD's analog input.

If you have an encoder on the spindle, and it's RS422 5V differential quadrature output, and conected 1:1 mechanically, then you can connect it to the Oak board. CNC12 will then display the actual spindle rpm and you can enable rigid tapping. However, the rigid tapping cycles do require an index (Z) encoder channel to be connected.
Last edited by tblough on Sat Jun 17, 2023 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers,

Tom
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by martyscncgarage »

Oscar6 wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:29 am Good again. This week I am going to try to control the speed of the spindle, I think I have to connect the signal to the encoder connector number 6 on the oka board and configure the parameters as the manual says. I have a question, my machine has two encoders, one in the motor and the other in the spindle. My delta variator uses phases a and b of the motor encoder and phase z of the spindle to control the motor and to position the spindle. Phases a and b of the head remain free. my question is if the oka board would work without connecting phase z and connecting only phases a and b of the head encoder. I don't know if it will work only with phases a and b if someone has used this configuration. thank you
You need to post a picture, make and model of the Delta VFD and the Encoder board INSIDE the VFD.
Some Delta VFD's (I have the VFD-VE, connect directly to the spindle encoder, which must be belted at 1:1 if you want to do rigid tapping) and then provide an output the the motion controller.

So, we don't know what you have, which encoder board your Delta VFD has....if you want to rigid tap, you need the encoder signal from the spindle, belted at 1:1 and you want the index pulse. (As Tom mentioned, the encoder signal must be compatible with Oak. 5V line driver differential signal, A, A/, B, B/, Z, Z/, +5VDC, 5VDC COM)

As Tom mentioned, the spindle encoder is only used for rigid tapping and displaying actual spindle speed. Centroid does NOT try to maintain spindle speed.

Marty
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

martyscncgarage wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 12:44 pm
Oscar6 wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 9:29 am Good again. This week I am going to try to control the speed of the spindle, I think I have to connect the signal to the encoder connector number 6 on the oka board and configure the parameters as the manual says. I have a question, my machine has two encoders, one in the motor and the other in the spindle. My delta variator uses phases a and b of the motor encoder and phase z of the spindle to control the motor and to position the spindle. Phases a and b of the head remain free. my question is if the oka board would work without connecting phase z and connecting only phases a and b of the head encoder. I don't know if it will work only with phases a and b if someone has used this configuration. thank you
You need to post a picture, make and model of the Delta VFD and the Encoder board INSIDE the VFD.
Some Delta VFD's (I have the VFD-VE, connect directly to the spindle encoder, which must be belted at 1:1 if you want to do rigid tapping) and then provide an output the the motion controller.

So, we don't know what you have, which encoder board your Delta VFD has....if you want to rigid tap, you need the encoder signal from the spindle, belted at 1:1 and you want the index pulse. (As Tom mentioned, the encoder signal must be compatible with Oak. 5V line driver differential signal, A, A/, B, B/, Z, Z/, +5VDC, 5VDC COM)

As Tom mentioned, the spindle encoder is only used for rigid tapping and displaying actual spindle speed. Centroid does NOT try to maintain spindle speed.

Marty
Hello again, the variator I have is a delta c2000 plus with an emc-pg01l encoder card, I don't understand how Oka can control the spindle revolutions if an encoder is not connected, my machine has a pulley transmission, a small one on the spindle and a larger one in the spindle, the drive controls the motor with an encoder connected to the motor and I also have an encoder in the spindle and right now I have free phases a and b of this encoder because I use phase z of the spindle to position the spindle for the tool change, but the revolutions of the spindle that are the real ones to work are not controlled by anyone, I just need to know if oka can work with the signals from the spindle encoder but only A,A/ and B,B/, the encoder It is already powered by the drive with +5v, com. The emc-p01l card has an output but I think it refers to the motor encoder and it is not a 1:1 relationship. I don't know what to do.
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cncsnw
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by cncsnw »

Spindle speed commands are strictly proportional. Your Delta spindle drive should turn the motor at full speed when it is given a +10V analog speed reference; at half speed when given a +5V reference; at 1/10 speed when given a +1V reference; and so on.

On the Centroid Control Configuration screen, you must enter the spindle (tool) RPM that corresponds to full speed. I.e., how fast the tool will spin when you give the Delta drive a +10V analog speed reference. This setting, of course, accounts for any uneven belt ratio between the motor and the spindle.

If your machine has a transmission with multiple gears, then you enter the maximum speed for the highest range on the Control Configuration screen; and you also set Parameters 65, 66 and/or 67 to tell the control how much slower the spindle turns in lower gears, compared to the speed in high gear range.

Given that information, the control will calculate what percentage of maximum speed it should request from the Delta drive, to achieve whatever tool RPM you have asked for.

Most good spindle drives are remarkably linear from at least 5% through 95% speed commands, so there is no need to "close the loop" with encoder or tachometer feedback.
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

cncsnw wrote: Sat Jun 17, 2023 2:47 pm Spindle speed commands are strictly proportional. Your Delta spindle drive should turn the motor at full speed when it is given a +10V analog speed reference; at half speed when given a +5V reference; at 1/10 speed when given a +1V reference; and so on.

On the Centroid Control Configuration screen, you must enter the spindle (tool) RPM that corresponds to full speed. I.e., how fast the tool will spin when you give the Delta drive a +10V analog speed reference. This setting, of course, accounts for any uneven belt ratio between the motor and the spindle.

If your machine has a transmission with multiple gears, then you enter the maximum speed for the highest range on the Control Configuration screen; and you also set Parameters 65, 66 and/or 67 to tell the control how much slower the spindle turns in lower gears, compared to the speed in high gear range.

Given that information, the control will calculate what percentage of maximum speed it should request from the Delta drive, to achieve whatever tool RPM you have asked for.

Most good spindle drives are remarkably linear from at least 5% through 95% speed commands, so there is no need to "close the loop" with encoder or tachometer feedback.
Thank you for this quick solution, sorry for my lack of knowledge, I did not know the parameters 65-67, now I understand, it is the software that is in charge of calculating the voltage sent to the variator according to the gear ratio of the parameters 65-67 , so I do not need to connect the encoder at the moment, it has been a bit difficult for me to calculate the ratio of the pulleys, they are a bit difficult to see, I don't know if I have done it correctly, but my motor has to give 1,413 turns for the spindle to 1 turn then I would have to put 0.7 in parameter 65 that I understand and in the spindle configuration I have to put 5600 maximum rpm if it is not like that, correct me. I will try to test it as soon as possible.
cncsnw
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by cncsnw »

Parameter 65 is only needed if the ratio changes when you shift gears.

If your machine has only one gear range and only one belt ratio -- so that the speed ratio between the motor and the tool does not change -- then you do not use Parameter 65. You just set the maximum speed, in the Control Configuration screen, to the speed of the tool when the motor is running at its maximum speed.

Does your machine have two or more gear ranges, that you can shift between?
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Re: Actualizacion EMCO VCM 300

Post by Oscar6 »

cncsnw wrote: Sun Jun 18, 2023 1:01 am Parameter 65 is only needed if the ratio changes when you shift gears.

If your machine has only one gear range and only one belt ratio -- so that the speed ratio between the motor and the tool does not change -- then you do not use Parameter 65. You just set the maximum speed, in the Control Configuration screen, to the speed of the tool when the motor is running at its maximum speed.

Does your machine have two or more gear ranges, that you can shift between?
Hello again, my machine only has one transmission ratio, so I only have to set 5600 rpm in the configuration, which rotates the tool when the engine rotates at 8000 rpm, I'll do some tests tomorrow to see what happens. Thanks for the help, this project It's getting a bit long, I really want to see it working.
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