Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

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martyscncgarage
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by martyscncgarage »

Look for any and all transformers. One of them fed the Servo power supply. Take pictures of the labels on them. I second Antekinc.com
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Chevy427z
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by Chevy427z »

Well, y'all got ahead of me LOL And you answered some questions before I asked.

I think this is good news.

I traced the wires back to find the source of my rectified power to my servo motors.

Marty was correct in naming the 220 volt step down transformer. I found a 110V contactor (Pic B and E) that pulled in a 220 connection to that transformer. I held 110 volts to that relay and measured the voltage coming out of the three legs of the 220 step down transformer. One pair was 76.1VAC, the other pair was 89.3 VAC, the two outside legs were 81.8.

Pic D shows the incoming from the 220 transformer. I think Marty was asking for a better pic of that.

Ultimately, I got 116VDC at the large capacitor. Incidentally, I watched the voltage bleed off, referring back to electrocution warnings. Yes, the leads are backwards, hence indicating negative volts.

The pictures that aren't labeled are just for reference. I'm not sure what the blue GE transformer does as there is a fuse missing. I haven't traced that yet.

There is one air solenoid (I think) that drives my oiler. Not 100% sure, but I can make that activate with externally supplied 110VAC.

The transformer that you both refer to has been disconnected (nothing on the input side), I think by a previous owner to connect a simple 110VAC plug to run the controller. There is a 110V leg going through a fuse on the outgoing side, not sure what it's supplying yet other than the 24VDC power supply.

Now my question is (and I think Polar answered it in his post), can I just wire this to supply the AllInOne. Or is it now more of a case that we know what the voltage requirement is, I should replace it with modern electronics?

Mark
Attachments
AC from 220 transformer.jpg
20210731_120559.jpg
20210731_120537.jpg
20210731_120400.jpg
20210731_115720.jpg
220 transformer.jpg
220 incoming edited.jpg
110 volt contactor.jpg
110 contactor 220 out.jpg
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polaraligned
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by polaraligned »

So exactly what transformer is supplying the servo motors? I am confused. What you have labeled as C looks like a 3 phase transformer and you say the blue GE transformer does nothing.....

The 82vac you measure would produce the 116vdc you measure, but I am not sure where you are measuring the ac voltage from.

Bottom line is that you can use your existing servo supply including transformer, rectifier and filter capacitor. You can also use your 24vdc supply. You can also use any suitable contactors and relays.

I personally would trash it all and put in new, but it is your wallet not mine. Only real reason to replace it all is to clean it up and make it easier for a non-electronics person to get the system up and running. From a reliability standpoint, this old hardware might outlast the new stuff or it might die tomorrow.

I would use this transformer: https://www.antekinc.com/an-10440-1000v ... ansformer/ or the 1500va unit they sell. Wire the output in series to get 80 vac, and you can put either 120 or 240v into the transformer by either paralleling the input windings or using them in series.

Then get the Centroid rectifier and you are done. I know, expensive, but I am going with Marty here and recommending just starting with a clean slate so you get this machine up and running instead of tinkering with the existing components.

Whatever you think was the cost of a conversion, double it as I learned :lol:
martyscncgarage
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by martyscncgarage »

Polaraligned, that 40v transformer will only give him about 56vdc. Unfortunately I don't see a transformer that will give him 80vac x 1.414=113vdc.

Antek does have this power supply but don't feel that capacitors are large enough: https://www.antekinc.com/ps-15n105-1500 ... er-supply/

I am in agreement with you on the old electronics, 100%

I too want to o be clear on what transformer he is talking about. If it is that 3 phase transformers, I'd like a sketch as to how it is terminated to the bridge rectifier, which may be three phase. One core would not likely have the VA capacity to drive all three motors in single phase.

I *may* have both a transformer and a Centroid cap bridge I'd be willing to sell. Transformers are heavy and might be pricey to ship. I am in Mesa, AZ

Marty
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martyscncgarage
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by martyscncgarage »

Are there any markings on the transformer?
It would be extremely helpful to have the servo specs....
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polaraligned
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by polaraligned »

martyscncgarage wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:24 pm Polaraligned, that 40v transformer will only give him about 56vdc. Unfortunately I don't see a transformer that will give him 80vac x 1.414=113vdc.

Marty


Marty, read my post again:


I would use this transformer: https://www.antekinc.com/an-10440-1000v ... ansformer/ or the 1500va unit they sell. Wire the output in series to get 80 vac, and you can put either 120 or 240v into the transformer by either paralleling the input windings or using them in series.

------------------------

You only have to be mindful of the phasing. You have a 50/50 shot at getting it right, and if you are wrong, you just won't get the expected output voltage and it takes 2 seconds to reverse the wires.

I would probably go with the 1500va unit. That is what I run my machine with and it doesn't blink for lack of power.
https://www.antekinc.com/an-15440-1500v ... ansformer/
I also use the Antek rectifier module DC-200. I added an additional outboard capacitor, but I really didn't have any problems before I added it. I added an inrush current limiter only when I added the outboard capacitor. Yeah, it is cheaper than the Centroid unit, but it also is a bit harder to set up.
martyscncgarage
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by martyscncgarage »

Roger that Polaraligned!
"I would use this transformer: https://www.antekinc.com/an-10440-1000v ... ansformer/ or the 1500va unit they sell. Wire the output in series to get 80 vac, and you can put either 120 or 240v into the transformer by either paralleling the input windings or using them in series."

Agree might as well spend a bit more and buy the 1500:VA unit
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Chevy427z
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by Chevy427z »

Sorry for the confusion!

The 80VAC per leg transformer is in pic C (220VAC in). Unfortunately there are no markings on it. I didn't take the time to trace and draw a sketch of every incoming wire (as I have with everything else) as I didn't think it was necessary and it's in a very awkward location. I would have to unbolt it from it's mount. I can get that if need be. The three wires coming out of that transformer terminate at the DC power supply in Pic D (indicated by numbers 1, 2, and 3).

I appreciate your recommendations to modernize. Money is not my only concern. Understanding is a big part of it. I know what I have, and I understand it so I will probably move forward with it as long as things continue to function as expected. We'll see what the future holds.

May not get to it until next weekend now. I was at a wedding last night and I am an emergency response diver and we'll be doing some training with the rescue squad today. Thanks again!

Mark
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by cncsnw »

I don't see any reason you could not use the original 3-phase transformer and rectifier assembly, assuming that you have 3-phase service to power the machine. Admittedly, I did not re-read the last 20 pages of posts to see whether you said you had 3-phase, or only single-phase.

The connections to the 3-phase transformer are clear enough in your picture C.
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by polaraligned »

He is in a residential neighborhood, so I am sure there is not 3 phase available other than a rotary converter which I believe Mark is using to power this machine. I would drop the 3 phase, but to each their own. I run my 16x60 lathe on a rotary converter and I hate hearing it running.

The machine would certainly be more valuable on resale if it ran on single phase.
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