Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

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Chevy427z
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:39 am
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CNC Control System Serial Number: A900999
Location: Clinton, NC, USA
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Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by Chevy427z »

Good evening folks.

New member, about to embark on an Allin1DC retrofit on a 1984 Wells Index 847, originally equipped with a Sharnoa Tiger 3 controller.Been doing a lot of reading in here for the past few months.

Figured I'd start a new thread and introduce myself. 25 years in the trade. 4 year apprenticeship at IBM. Did most of my growing up New York, escaped to North Carolina in 1999. I miss the incredible culture of NY, but not the snow, cold, or taxes! Machine work is in my blood. My true passion is collecting and restoring vintage automobiles.

Started a home shop when I got laid off shortly after moving here and it's been a work in progress ever since. The Wells Index, or rather the Sharnoa controller was cumbersome, but it worked and made me a bunch of money. Finally in a position to do something about the controller and contacted Centroid. Sales was incredibly patient with my myriad questions. I hope that tech help is, too! LOL Finally settled on the Allin1DC as I can reuse my DC servo motors and encoders. The machine itself is in really good shape.

I can't wait to get started. I know that I will have a ton of questions. I look forward to learning and contributing when I can.

Mark
Attachments
20210413_174958.jpg
20210413_174946.jpg
20210413_174927.jpg
Last edited by Chevy427z on Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
M400
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SYSTEM ID - 0008DC111213-0301212560
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8251
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: About to embark on an Allin1DC retrofit on Wells Index 847

Post by martyscncgarage »

Great. We'll be here to try and help you along. My biggest piece of advice is use the All in One DC Mill schematic and follow it to the T.
You'll probably have to change the encoders on the servos?
What are the dark blue units above the servo motors?

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Chevy427z
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:39 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900999
Location: Clinton, NC, USA
Contact:

Re: About to embark on an Allin1DC retrofit on Wells Index 847

Post by Chevy427z »

Hi Marty!

Love your video series! I have been watching them over and over! Most everything is very straight forward to me <knock on wood> My mental issues revolve around the spindle motor and magnetic brake, but we'll get to that later. I'll be using the manual speed control for the time being and will upgrade to a VFD later on.

The dark blue units above the servo motors are the encoders. It was determined, through talking with sales, that I should be ok with my current encoders (which are bare minimum 1000 line) and servo motors. Hopefully that's still true. If I was made of money, I would not have hesitated one moment to upgrade them, too.

Thank you for your reply! Look forward to talking more in the future!

Mark
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SYSTEM ID - 0008DC111213-0301212560
cncsnw
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Re: About to embark on an Allin1DC retrofit on Wells Index 847

Post by cncsnw »

My (minimal) experience with the Wells Index magnetic brake, at least on a 1978 model 700, is that it requires full-voltage 208-240VAC 60Hz 3-phase to release. In the original wiring, it was just wired in parallel with motor power, since the motor ran across the lines.

If you are running the motor across the lines (i.e. with a contactor) on 3-phase power (whether from the utility or from a phase converter), then it should work fine.

If you switch to using a VFD, which may start the motor at low voltage and low frequency, then the brake may not release. In that case, if you do not have full-voltage 60Hz 3-phase power available to send to it separately, then your best bet is to just remove the brake and do without.
Chevy427z
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:39 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900999
Location: Clinton, NC, USA
Contact:

Re: About to embark on an Allin1DC retrofit on Wells Index 847

Post by Chevy427z »

Thank you for your post!

Funny you should mention leaving the brake disconnected. I tried that shortly after I got the machine because it made an awful racket (clanging, loudly, when stopping). Electricity is not my strong suit. I must have done something wrong because the first time I started it up (or stopped it, it's been a while and memory is fuzzy) heavy smoke came out of it. I put it back the way it was and dealt with the loud braking. It seemed to work fine. No idea what I had done wrong.

I know, for sure, that I will have questions later as I get to that stage.

As Marty suggested, I'll be following the installation manual to a T. I've built Heath Kits back in the day, have some solid electrical experience, and I can follow instructions really well.

Thanks again for your input! Glad to know that I have friends and help in here!

Mark
M400
A900999
CNC12
SYSTEM ID - 0008DC111213-0301212560
Chevy427z
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:39 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900999
Location: Clinton, NC, USA
Contact:

Re: About to embark on an Allin1DC retrofit on Wells Index 847

Post by Chevy427z »

Close ups of the encoders for Marty, And anyone else who might be interested.
Attachments
20210223_171553.jpg
X Axis encode connections.jpg
20210223_172243.jpg
20210223_171909.jpg
M400
A900999
CNC12
SYSTEM ID - 0008DC111213-0301212560
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8251
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: About to embark on an Allin1DC retrofit on Wells Index 847

Post by martyscncgarage »

Do you have the color code/function chart for the encoders?
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
cncsnw
Posts: 2033
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: About to embark on an Allin1DC retrofit on Wells Index 847

Post by cncsnw »

I think the spindle brake is applied by default, with springs. It takes power to release it.

Therefore leaving it installed but disconnected is not an option. If you do not have suitable power for it, you have to remove it entirely.
Chevy427z
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:39 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900999
Location: Clinton, NC, USA
Contact:

Re: About to embark on an Allin1DC retrofit on Wells Index 847

Post by Chevy427z »

martyscncgarage wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:33 pm Do you have the color code/function chart for the encoders?
I'm thinking not, because I'm not even sure what that is. I have all the operator's manuals for the mill, but sadly, nothing as far as schematics or diagrams. I assumed having the wires labeled as they are would be enough to transfer and make my DB9 connectors. I sent the same pics of the encoders to Liviu Degeratu in sales, who advised me that they should work fine.

The machine has to be powered up via a tape reader. Once powered up it will communicate with a PC via RS232 port. I haven't brought it up in a few years. I'm hoping to be able to power it up enough to draw some schematics and measure voltages where necessary.

Mark
M400
A900999
CNC12
SYSTEM ID - 0008DC111213-0301212560
Chevy427z
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:39 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900999
Location: Clinton, NC, USA
Contact:

Re: About to embark on an Allin1DC retrofit on Wells Index 847

Post by Chevy427z »

cncsnw wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:36 pm I think the spindle brake is applied by default, with springs. It takes power to release it.

Therefore leaving it installed but disconnected is not an option. If you do not have suitable power for it, you have to remove it entirely.
That makes sense! I'm hoping that the experience I have gained in electronics and electricity in the past few years will help me to better understand things such as this better. That was almost 15 years ago LOL

I'm sure that I have suitable power for it. I've run it off of a 10HP RPC in the past and I have another one rated at 25HP (for a CNC lathe) if need be.

Mark
M400
A900999
CNC12
SYSTEM ID - 0008DC111213-0301212560
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