Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

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polaraligned
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by polaraligned »

Yeah, just get the encoders counting first. Still, I don't understand how it is possible to have any of the axis idle too high or even have the load bars go into red, unless there is no sense resistor in the circuit and they are just estimating the current in the drive, which would be the cheap way out. Either way, the estop contactor should have tripped within seconds if it is wired correctly.

That Z axis encoder I gave you might very well be bad. I had it in my draw as a pull from a working motor that was just overheating due to shorted winding. I only have 500 line encoders left or I would send you a new one. Sorry about that, I should have tested it.

This here is an inexpensive replacement if you can't get that one working.

https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/sh ... a-2e2500vd

This 2500 line is the same price as the 1000 line. Yeah, I probably would put these on my machine. They might not be as high quality as others with a glass scale inside, but they will be far from the #1 factor influencing your accuracy.
martyscncgarage
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by martyscncgarage »

When you got the idling to high message, I assumed you
Had the motors wired. Sorry.
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eng199
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by eng199 »

polaraligned wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:53 am Yeah, just get the encoders counting first. Still, I don't understand how it is possible to have any of the axis idle too high or even have the load bars go into red, unless there is no sense resistor in the circuit and they are just estimating the current in the drive, which would be the cheap way out.
If the encoder position is not exactly where the control wants it to be, the control will try to correct.
You have no motor power, so the motor won't move.
If the position is a little bit off, a small current will be requested until "idling too high" occurs.
If the position is a significantly off, full current will be requested until "full power without motion" occurs.

With ALLIN1DC, the control assumes the drive section is applying the power it asked for. In other words, the load meter represents the requested current. In normal situations, this is very close to the actual current. The ALLIN1DC uses hall effect current sensors and does a very good job of controlling current once you hook up the wires :D .
polaraligned
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by polaraligned »

eng199 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 3:24 pm
polaraligned wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:53 am Yeah, just get the encoders counting first. Still, I don't understand how it is possible to have any of the axis idle too high or even have the load bars go into red, unless there is no sense resistor in the circuit and they are just estimating the current in the drive, which would be the cheap way out.
If the encoder position is not exactly where the control wants it to be, the control will try to correct.
You have no motor power, so the motor won't move.
If the position is a little bit off, a small current will be requested until "idling too high" occurs.
If the position is a significantly off, full current will be requested until "full power without motion" occurs.

With ALLIN1DC, the control assumes the drive section is applying the power it asked for. In other words, the load meter represents the requested current. In normal situations, this is very close to the actual current. The ALLIN1DC uses hall effect current sensors and does a very good job of controlling current once you hook up the wires :D .

This is inconsistent with the allinone manual for the stage of testing that is being done here. The motors are not under power and no motion has been requested.

When you are testing encoders per manual with no motor power hooked up, you have not commanded a move so the motor doesn't have a position to hold because no motion command has been executed. The encoders according to the manual should count up and down with no errors and no power being shown on the power bar- just as mine do.

The encoders will count with no errors or power bar going red, even with motor power leads connected, provided that the power is released by the control either before the system is homed, or the power is released via a M93 command.

What Chevy427z is seeing here I have no explanation for because my control works exactly as I described above, and the way the manual states.
martyscncgarage
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by martyscncgarage »

In my bench testing All in One DCs, and following the installation manual, I have not experienced it either.
You are not or should not be commanding any moves.
Marty
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eng199
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by eng199 »

polaraligned wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:01 pm The encoders will count with no errors or power bar going red, even with motor power leads connected, provided that the power is released by the control either before the system is homed, or the power is released via a M93 command.
I agree with this. The power bar shows that the axes are enabled and attempting to move. Issue M93 to release power. The control will try to enable axes again if you re-enter MDI.
Chevy427z
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by Chevy427z »

Interesting reading! Thank you all for your input.

Tonight's findings.

I powered up the ALLinOne without touching anything. Axis digits are blank.

I disabled Stall Detection as instructed.

I cycled the EMO at the I/O page as instructed. Registers still not displaying anything.

The only way I can get the DRO to show digits is to go to MDI.

There are no encoders errors on the screen.

Z counts fine up and down.

Y counts fine up and down (though I have it plugged into the X axis on the ALLinOne (from earlier attempts)

The encoder on the X axis is not counting at all. That's the one that polar repaired with a new chip (not the one he put the used encoder into my body - that one seems to be working fine now)

All three load scales turned red. They momentarily blinked green while I was rotating the encoder by hand. I thought it was blinking as it went through "zero", but I couldn't get that to repeat. Just intermittantly flashed green.

A question about the encoder that polar pointed me to to replace the one that is not counting at all. He suggested a 2500 line encoder. I'm assuming that it's ok to mix and match encoders with different line counts, As long as I mark it correctly in the parameters? Mine are all 1000 right now.

Is there a way to see the DRO without the power meters, before there is power to the servos or is that not an issue at this point?

I took some pics. I didn't think a video would help, but if you need that, I will get one. Many thanks!

Mark

edited: Additionally, I went to check the registers in PID (page 32 step 1 - 3 and the two mentioned above are reading fine. The third (bad encoder) flip flops from 0 to 1 and back as it's rotated.
Attachments
Step two DRO ok.jpg
Step one no DRO.jpg
On screen msgs no errors.jpg
report_0008DC111213-0301212560_2021-06-14_18-08-45.zip
(475.88 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
M400
A900999
CNC12
SYSTEM ID - 0008DC111213-0301212560
tblough
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by tblough »

You don't need DRO digits at this point. You have not configured your turns per inch, nor your encoder counts per rev so DRO digits are meaningless. Pressing MDI causes the control to attempt to apply power to your drives and when you then turn an encoder the control thinks the machine is drifting and attempts to correct the position error.

Please just follow the installation instructions step by step. Dont' skip steps, don't jump ahead. Step by step and the directions will work.
Cheers,

Tom
Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.
I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are where they should be.
martyscncgarage
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by martyscncgarage »

Tom is correct.
DROs are irrelevant at this point.
You use the PID screen to watch encoder counts.

Marty
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Chevy427z
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Re: Upgrading 1984 Wells Index 820 with Allin1DC

Post by Chevy427z »

tblough wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:29 pm You don't need DRO digits at this point. You have not configured your turns per inch, nor your encoder counts per rev so DRO digits are meaningless. Pressing MDI causes the control to attempt to apply power to your drives and when you then turn an encoder the control thinks the machine is drifting and attempts to correct the position error.

Please just follow the installation instructions step by step. Dont' skip steps, don't jump ahead. Step by step and the directions will work.
OK, I'm being confused by the instructions in the book and guidance by Marty on here. I'll try to pay closer attention. I thought I was. The instructions say to hit MDI to be sure all error messages have been cleared. I also thought that I had plugged in my encoder counts and counts per rev. I'll double check that.

Any thoughts on this? I'd like to go ahead and order the one that polar recommended.
A question about the encoder that polar pointed me to to replace the one that is not counting at all. He suggested a 2500 line encoder. I'm assuming that it's ok to mix and match encoders with different line counts, As long as I mark it correctly in the parameters? Mine are all 1000 right now.
M400
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SYSTEM ID - 0008DC111213-0301212560
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