OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

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JasonPORC
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:30 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by JasonPORC »

Good day All.

After a few months of combing through the forum, learning and asking newbie questions, I've finally gotten my Oak board and I want to document the process for those that come after me, AND have all the appropriate info in one place so Marty doesn't get cranky and yell at me. :)

The Plan:
Remove existing WINCNC control system from my fully functional Router. The machine has pretty good bones, but the controller is... lackluster at best. Before I decommission the working machine, I want to make sure I have as much figured out as possible to minimize downtime on a machine that runs a lot and pays a lot of my bills so I need to be VERY thoughtful in my build. My goal is to have the machine down for 7 days. If we don't have dreams what are we gunna crush right?

Oak Board with Pro license, ATC add on, and Wireless MPG. Probing and Tool Height measuring is still undecided. I've got both now, but they are NC so... I'm still wondering how much of a headache it will be to use them vs. buying new. I'll purchase the ProbeApp, and work with Swissi to determine the best path moving forward. (But that's a topic for another day.)

Hardware is:
-Mitsubishi MR-JE drives and motors.(3 phase AC drive power and 220AC logic power) X, Y, and Z with brake (paired Y on moving gantry)
4-Flying lead cables from Centroid and 4- 50 pin breakout boards for the other end, so I don't have to solder tiny little connectors and they plug directly into the CN1 port on the Drives. Ebay, and China for the win!
-CNCDepot, FM30C 24,000 RPM ATC with ceramic bearings 2.2Kw
-Hitachi WJ200 VFD.
-10-15 tool fixed rack ATC at end of machine.(non-moving and I still have to build it. The machine currently uses manual tool changes.)
-Dust Collection, Vacuum hold-down, locating pins, and (a retractable dust shroud via pneumatics I have to design and build.)
-Used Dell CNCPC I got on E-bay and yes, it meets the Centroid requirements.
-Used 19" ELO capacitive touch monitor. Go EBAY!
-Used 30 x 42 x 12, control cabinet to be wall mounted by machine.
-Monitor, CNCCPU and keyboard on swivel arm with MPG by machine that I need to design and make

Before I got too much deeper into the build, I changed a couple parameters that were SUPER helpful:

Parameter 4, changed to 8 (opens Windows-style File Open dialog) WAY easier for me.
Parameter 42, changed to 54 (eliminates the need for a password to make parameter edits. I'm the only person to use the machine so I'm ok turning this off)

I'm going to follow the Minimum OAK wiring diagram. I don't see a need to overcomplicate things if I don't have to. The only big change I intend to do is use 24VDC for all control voltage, NOT 24VAC. I am using OAK power supply for only the OAK. A second larger wattage DIN rail unit will be for all others, including the H2 Oak input. (Someone yell at me if that's a bad idea please.)

I also picked up a used Mitsubishi Drive and Motor off of Ebay for next to nothing for bench testing the servos, before hooking up the actual machine motors. I think that will prove to be a good idea.

I've been using SkyCAD Free for my schematics and I like it a lot! Worth a look if you're in the market for a powerful free drawing tool for the wiring.

https://skycad.ca/

I had several manuals printed and bound for the build. I like hard copies that I can put tabs on, and highlight. I had good luck and decent pricing with Best Value Copy. (But DAMN... know I know why companies don't include manuals anymore! They're spendy to make)

https://www.bestvaluecopy.com/

I think that's about it for now. Below are links to the previous posts I've started here in the forum as I've been learning stuff. Have a look if you're interested in some basic principles and practices others have shared with me.

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=5702&p=48772#p48772 (Limit Switches, Probing and More Newbie)
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=5612&p=48041#p48041 (Choosing Position, Torque, or Speed Mode)
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=5415&p=46247#p46247 (Control Cabinet Wiring, Best Practices)
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=5357&p=45732#p45732 (My first goofy post)

If I end up asking specific questions that warrant a dedicated post, I'll try to link it here as well.

Attached below are the Manuals for the Mitsubishi Drives:
Mitsubishi Servo Amplifier.pdf
(3.42 MiB) Downloaded 12 times
and
and Hitachi VFD:
WJ200_Instruction_NT325X.pdf
(4.47 MiB) Downloaded 6 times
Thanks in advance for anyone who chooses to offer help and guidance on my journey! I truly can't do this without you all.
cncsnw
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by cncsnw »

I recommend using 24VDC from the Oak's RQ-65D power supply for the axis interface supply on H2, and also for PLC input circuits.

Use your separate supply for contactor coils, solenoid coils, servo brake coils, etc..
JasonPORC
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:30 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by JasonPORC »

cncsnw wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:40 pm I recommend using 24VDC from the Oak's RQ-65D power supply for the axis interface supply on H2, and also for PLC input circuits.

Use your separate supply for contactor coils, solenoid coils, servo brake coils, etc..
DONE! Will do.

Thank you!

If you’d care to share why, I’d love to learn. I’m guessing there is something good about one supply that feeds plc and servos?

Again... thank you for sharing your know how! Means a lot to someone in my shoes.
cncsnw
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by cncsnw »

PLC inputs and the servo drive interface are low-power, low-noise functions, but they are potentially sensitive to noise or inductive spikes.

Contactor coils, solenoid coils and motor brake coils are sources of inductive spikes.
JasonPORC
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:30 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by JasonPORC »

cncsnw wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:52 am PLC inputs and the servo drive interface are low-power, low-noise functions, but they are potentially sensitive to noise or inductive spikes.

Contactor coils, solenoid coils and motor brake coils are sources of inductive spikes.
That totally makes sense. I've already made the change. THANK YOU!
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by martyscncgarage »

My advice is follow the Oak Mill schematic closely. You follow it, you will be fine.
It addresses the issue that you and Marc suggested. That is a separate power supply for Estop contactor, solenoids etc.
Be sure to use snubbers across all coils etc. Also addressed on the schematic.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
JasonPORC
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:30 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by JasonPORC »

Good day all.

I've begun my bench testing and all is going well, however I'd like to confirm the wiring for the E-Stop contactor.

All posts prior on the forum regarding Mitsubishi drives are referring to MR-J2 drives. I am using MR-JE drives. and wow, they certainly are different!!

As I understand it, the E-Stop contactor should kill power to the drive, but not the logic power as documented on the OAK MINIMUM CONNECTIONS shown below.
Oak Minimum Connections.JPG
The MR-JE drives use the same 220 power for both logic and drive power. Below is the wiring diagram Mitsubishi has in the manual.
Signals and Wiring.JPG
I am however confused with this detailed section of the schematic. Would someone be kind enough to shed some light on it please?
Detailed Control.JPG
There's an EStop, push button STOP, RA1?? (no idea) a push button ON, a magnetic contractor, and another magnetic contactor with snubbers??? (SK?)

I have no idea. It's odd that L1 goes through all that switching and then ties back into L2. It makes my brain hurt... But in a good way. Am I overthinking it?

My instinct is to feed L1, L2 though the EStop contactor, (with snubber of course) and L3 bypasses EStop? The Estop coil would or course be controlled with my separate 24VDC power supply.

I also see note 3 and 6 where I will need to configure EM2 and SON. That of course means I need to fully understand the 50 pin CN1 connector. But that's for another day! ha ha.

One final screen shot of the internal wiring for the drive. It's a bit over my head, but I'm sure someone here fully understands it. Hopefull I will too before the end of this project.
Functions and Configurations.JPG
ANY HELP would be SUPER appreciated!!!! Oh... and the complete MR-JE manual is linked on the original post if needed. THANK YOU!!!!
polaraligned
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:03 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: Yes
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 1030090103
Location: Montvale, NJ

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by polaraligned »

JasonPORC wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:22 am
I am however confused with this detailed section of the schematic. Would someone be kind enough to shed some light on it please?
Detailed Control.JPG

There's an EStop, push button STOP, RA1?? (no idea) a push button ON, a magnetic contractor, and another magnetic contactor with snubbers??? (SK?)
It is an on-off latching circuit. When you hit ON, current will flow thru the MC coil and closes the 3 phase input relay MC. The MC contacts on that schematic detail you posted are the 4th set of contacts on the main contactor. It needs an extra set of contacts to "latch itself". RA1 is a relay contact that comes off the alarm signal and will cut the current off to the MC coil and open the main contactor, cutting power to drive. Off switch does the same thing. Anything in series that opens up will cut current to MC coil and unlatch the main contactor and cut off power. It is not a temporary opening, when MC becomes unlatched and the only way to power up drive again would be to hit the ON button again, and it will only stay latched if the other devices in series are closed. On switch would be a momentary NO switch, and off would be a momentary NC switch.
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by martyscncgarage »

Did you give the correct drive information to Centroid before purchasing OAK?
All the drives I have worked with so far, keep the logic power up. This in turn keeps the encoder powered up so Oak knows the position even during an stop. Not to mention Oak seeing the drive. I can't see your drives working with Oak. I would think Oak would fault with no feedback from the drives when powered down. Though I have no experience with them.

Perhaps Marc (cncsnw) will chime in.
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
JasonPORC
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:30 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by JasonPORC »

[/quote]
martyscncgarage wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:34 am Did you give the correct drive information to Centroid before purchasing OAK?
Yup. I sure did Marty.

Thanks for the explanation Polaraligned.. And DUH! It’s a latching relay! (Palm to face)

Talk about seeing the forest through the trees. Ha. I was so obsessed with figuring out how the Estop would work that I didn’t actually see what was right in front of me. And know I know RA is short for Relay. Woo hoo. Learn something every day.

I too am hoping Marc will swoop in and save the day as per his usual way. 🤞🏽🤞🏽🤞🏽
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