I have a 1991 Dah Lih MCV-610 (16 tools ATC turret), with Fanuc 0-M controller.
I would like to modernize it a bit, and found Centroid very interesting.
But to be honest, the Fanuc retrofit package solution is just too expensive, 3x the price of the mill.
Anyone done something similar, with a lower cost option?
First are you capable of doing such a conversion? Do you have a good handle on electrical/electronics? OR are you going to contract the work out?
Second, pictures of the machine, the current servo motors and their labels, servo drives, Spindle drive, overall good resolution of the control cabinet would be required.
The motion controller is a very small part of the expense of the conversion.
Marty
Re: Retrofit options, 1991 Fanuc 0-M.
Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:07 pm
by eMTea
Technical and wiring I see myself capable of handeling, electrician by profession, and geniune technical interest takes me a long way.
I'll provide some detailed photos of the machine when I get home.
My conserns are the ATC bit, programming of plc functions to control it. Is the centroid plc software ok to get a hold on. I'm not very comfortable with ladders, FBD's are more logic to me.
Re: Retrofit options, 1991 Fanuc 0-M.
Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:23 pm
by martyscncgarage
eMTea wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:07 pm
Technical and wiring I see myself capable of handeling, electrician by profession, and geniune technical interest takes me a long way.
I'll provide some detailed photos of the machine when I get home.
My conserns are the ATC bit, programming of plc functions to control it. Is the centroid plc software ok to get a hold on. I'm not very comfortable with ladders, FBD's are more logic to me.
You can always hire Marc Leonard (cncsnw) or Centroid to help you with the PLC portion. BUT you need to be very detailed on how the tool changer works and what sensors you have for the ATC, drawbar etc. If you decide to move forward, you might list all that information here first.
Re: Retrofit options, 1991 Fanuc 0-M.
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:05 am
by eMTea
I think I have the original ladder diagram in one of the documents that came with the mill.
Re: Retrofit options, 1991 Fanuc 0-M.
Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:22 am
by martyscncgarage
Centroid PLC programming is not the same as a PLC Ladder diagram. Though if you know how to read your machine's ladder diagram, it may help you document the process.
If you have documentation, you can find all the sensors involved, how they are wired etc.
If the machine is running being able to do a video of it changing tools, also finding all the sensors will go a long way.
DO post those video clips and pictures here on your build thread. DO create a Google Photo album and take lots of pictures as you go. Keep a large notepad near the machine for notes.
Marty
Re: Retrofit options, 1991 Fanuc 0-M.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:11 am
by eMTea
Hi!
Have now got a quote from DMM on the servos, looks very tempting. To be honest, the Centroid ac/dc drivers are too pricey to consider for me.
I've digged through the manual, and the original spindle drive should be fairly ok to implement as far as I understand.
The next consern is the ATC umbrella. is a move of the toolchange.
The routine is as follows;
1. Stop spindle.
2. Home Z axis.
3. Plc tells drive to orient spindle. (orient complete signal from drive unit)
4. Move umbrella OUT (pneu solenoid activated, also confirmed OUT via switch on plc input).
5. Unclamp toolholder (pneu solenoid activated, and confirmed release on switch to plc input).
6. Move umbrella DOWN (pneu solenoid activated, also confirmed DOWN via switch on plc input).
7. Rotate umbrella (not sure how it keeps track of position )
8. Air blast from spindle to clean cone/seat. (pneu solenoid activated for 2sec (ish))
9. Move umbrella UP (pneu solenoid deactivated, also confirmed UP via switch on plc input).
10. Clamp toolholder (pneu solenoid deactivated, and confirmed clamp on switch to plc input)
11. Move umbrella IN. pneu solenoid deactivated, also confirmed IN via switch on plc input).
Toolchange complete.
Re: Retrofit options, 1991 Fanuc 0-M.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:37 am
by martyscncgarage
All pretty standard stuff for Umbrella PLC except for dropping and raising it. Marc Leonard (cncsnw) could be retained to make that modification for you. You would have to consult with him. He is fair and efficient provided he's not terribly busy.
Check closely for a proximity sensor on the ATC tool platter and "targets" for counting the tool.
Re: Retrofit options, 1991 Fanuc 0-M.
Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:51 pm
by cncsnw
As Marty notes, the tool counter is typically a single sensor that triggers on and off as the carousel rotates from one tool position to the next. The PLC counts on/off cycles of the tool counter to determine how many stations have passed.
There are other schemes -- e.g. multiple sensors or an absolute encoder, to provide absolute-position feedback -- but they are comparatively rare.
Tool carousels with the typical incremental tool-counter sensor often also have a carousel-homing sensor to indicate when it is at or near the "tool 1" position, but that is generally superfluous with a Centroid control.
Re: Retrofit options, 1991 Fanuc 0-M.
Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2022 3:33 pm
by cnckeith
i would use Delta or Yaskawa with Oak. Proven, reliable, well documented and we have lots experience with them which is the success path.
Have now got a quote from DMM on the servos, looks very tempting. To be honest, the Centroid ac/dc drivers are too pricey to consider for me.
I've digged through the manual, and the original spindle drive should be fairly ok to implement as far as I understand.
The next consern is the ATC umbrella. is a move of the toolchange.
The routine is as follows;
1. Stop spindle.
2. Home Z axis.
3. Plc tells drive to orient spindle. (orient complete signal from drive unit)
4. Move umbrella OUT (pneu solenoid activated, also confirmed OUT via switch on plc input).
5. Unclamp toolholder (pneu solenoid activated, and confirmed release on switch to plc input).
6. Move umbrella DOWN (pneu solenoid activated, also confirmed DOWN via switch on plc input).
7. Rotate umbrella (not sure how it keeps track of position )
8. Air blast from spindle to clean cone/seat. (pneu solenoid activated for 2sec (ish))
9. Move umbrella UP (pneu solenoid deactivated, also confirmed UP via switch on plc input).
10. Clamp toolholder (pneu solenoid deactivated, and confirmed clamp on switch to plc input)
11. Move umbrella IN. pneu solenoid deactivated, also confirmed IN via switch on plc input).
Toolchange complete.
)