Questions from a Newb...

[JasonPORC]

Hi there all.

I'm a cabinet maker about to embark on retrofitting my 4x8 router with an Oak Board. I am super excited about the process, and eager to dig into the nitty gritty of how the machine that pays my bills every month really works. I should be just barely scratching the surface of potential of the oak board. (4 Servos, Rail style ATC, probe, vac hold down, dust collection, locating pins, and a few simple I/O's)

I'm taking it slow and learning all I can BEFORE I decommission the machine and swap out the garbage controller currently being used. I've got lovely printed and bound manuals for the Oak install Manual, Oak User Manual, my servos and drivers (Mitsubishi) Manuals, and Hitachi VFD/spindle Manual. I picked up a new to me PC based on the a great post in the forums. (Thank you forums!) I even went so far as to find a used servo/driver on eBay exactly the same as what's on my machine to use for bench testing. And I of course am watching every dang video out there made by Marty and Centroid.

I'm a bit of an introvert so I don't know for sure if I'll share all the deets of my build, but I might if it seems like a good idea to you all? Regardless, thank you in advance to all that contribute to this amazing community.

Anyhow... Onto the questions of the newb.

1. I've installed the Mill Demo. What functions have been "disabled?" I don't have an Oak board hooked up so I know there's plenty. But... Should I be able to "virtually" jog an axis? If the answer is no... that's ok, but if the answer is yes, clearly I need to dig deeper to figure out how to turn this on.

2. Is there a way to move the main control screen? I would like to put the VCP to the left of the screen. Reasons being. 1. I'm a lefty and plan to use this with a touch screen. 2. Based on how my shop and machine are set up, I'd like it to be on the left and negate the use of an MPG. 3. By moving it to the left side, I can program the VCP Aux buttons to be used as axis Zeros buttons. I know that you can free the VCP, but is there a way to shift the main screen to the right of the screen and permanently lock the VCP on the left?

3. Do I need the ATC add on? I am more than willing to pay for it, but I wonder if I really need it. My ATC will be a simple (ie non umbrella or swing arm) 10-15 station rail that the spindle goes to to unload and load tools as needed. No additional servos or I/O are needed for a tool change. It's all one big macro if I understand correctly? Again... I'm not trying to be cheap, just curious.

I think that's it for now. Thank you in advance for any info you're all willing to share. Cheers!

[cncsnw]

The demo software would not communicate with an Oak board, even if one were present and connected. The purpose of the demo is to simulate the control, without any control present. The only features that have been "disabled" are the ability to run an actual control, and a handful of features that depend heavily on interaction with the real world (probing, digitizing, autotune, laser measurement, etc.).

As far as I know, the VCP does not work with the demo, but the "keyboard jog panel" does. Therefore you can use Alt-J to activate the jog panel; use the Ctrl-i and Ctrl-f keys to switch the jog mode incremental/continuous and slow/fast; and use the keyboard arrow keys and PgUp/PgDn to jog the axes. You can also enter axis movement commands at the MDI prompt (in G code form) and run them by pressing Alt-S (the keyboard equivalent for Cycle Start).

With a linear-rack tool changer, you can get by without the ATC software add-on. You just lose the benefit of the F7/ATC key on the Setup and Tool Library screens, and you lose the ability to use more tool library entries than you have positions in your rack.

[ashesman]

The VCP can be displayed with the demo but does nothing as there is no real controller for it to interface with. The VCP can be moved to any location on the screen. Put it in manual location mode and set the coordinates to 0,0 for top left. However, I do not know how to move the location of the Centroid software! I have always seen it at top left.

I was told recently by centroid support when I asked that the ATC plug in is a requirement for any tool changer and even if you don't need special tool changer control logic you still need the add on otherwise the controller will not respond to tool change g code commands. Best double check with Centroid. All the little upgrades is where Centroid makes their money I think!

[martyscncgarage]

Hi there all.

I'm a cabinet maker about to embark on retrofitting my 4x8 router with an Oak Board. I am super excited about the process, and eager to dig into the nitty gritty of how the machine that pays my bills every month really works. I should be just barely scratching the surface of potential of the oak board. (4 Servos, Rail style ATC, probe, vac hold down, dust collection, locating pins, and a few simple I/O's)

I'm taking it slow and learning all I can BEFORE I decommission the machine and swap out the garbage controller currently being used. I've got lovely printed and bound manuals for the Oak install Manual, Oak User Manual, my servos and drivers (Mitsubishi) Manuals, and Hitachi VFD/spindle Manual. I picked up a new to me PC based on the a great post in the forums. (Thank you forums!) I even went so far as to find a used servo/driver on eBay exactly the same as what's on my machine to use for bench testing. And I of course am watching every dang video out there made by Marty and Centroid.

I'm a bit of an introvert so I don't know for sure if I'll share all the deets of my build, but I might if it seems like a good idea to you all? Regardless, thank you in advance to all that contribute to this amazing community.

Anyhow... Onto the questions of the newb.

1. I've installed the Mill Demo. What functions have been "disabled?" I don't have an Oak board hooked up so I know there's plenty. But... Should I be able to "virtually" jog an axis? If the answer is no... that's ok, but if the answer is yes, clearly I need to dig deeper to figure out how to turn this on.

2. Is there a way to move the main control screen? I would like to put the VCP to the left of the screen. Reasons being. 1. I'm a lefty and plan to use this with a touch screen. 2. Based on how my shop and machine are set up, I'd like it to be on the left and negate the use of an MPG. 3. By moving it to the left side, I can program the VCP Aux buttons to be used as axis Zeros buttons. I know that you can free the VCP, but is there a way to shift the main screen to the right of the screen and permanently lock the VCP on the left?

3. Do I need the ATC add on? I am more than willing to pay for it, but I wonder if I really need it. My ATC will be a simple (ie non umbrella or swing arm) 10-15 station rail that the spindle goes to to unload and load tools as needed. No additional servos or I/O are needed for a tool change. It's all one big macro if I understand correctly? Again... I'm not trying to be cheap, just curious.

I think that's it for now. Thank you in advance for any info you're all willing to share. Cheers!

First, be honest with yourself. Do you have the basic electronic/electrical skills and the ability to read a schematic in order to carry out the conversion?
The demo software gives you and idea of the user interface and some of the features.
As for an ATC, well, is it a real ATC? Automated tool changer or just a linear rack?

Don't be afraid to give Centroid a call and ask your questions, they are good people and will steer you in the right direction.
Marty

[JasonPORC]

Thank you ALL!!! I appreciate the info. I've got the VCP on screen, but no buttons work. That's ok. I can't get the jog screen to pop up. I get an error message. I'm guessing all of this is because I don't have a board hooked up.

I'll certainly pick up the ATC add on. Small price to pay.

I'll send a note to Centroid and ask about moving the main screen.

Marty. I'm not sure what you mean by a "real ATC". As I originally stated, it's a fixed rail that the spindle goes to to unload and load tools. and yes. I am being honest with myself. I have plenty of ability to read a diagram. I'm pretty sure my biggest hurdle will be fully understanding the ins and outs of the Servo Motors/Encoders and drives, and PLC programing. Good thing I like learning.

Thank you again to all who offered feedback! Cheers.

[ashesman]

I guess by "real ATC" Marty means one that requires a complex PLC control to actuate tool selection and tool swapping. A simple rack style one can be entirely operated by G and M codes. I.e. move above tool, orient spindle, lower down, grip tool, slide out of rack. This can all be done with a G code macro. However, a more complex tool changer would require a PLC program to rotate the rack, actuate the tool swap arm with switches and timing constraints.

Ideally you want your tool change set up so you can just use T3 M6 type G code rather than having to have a special macro inserted by your post processor. As I mentioned, Centroid said that the controller will not run ATC commands at all without the upgrade. On a side note, if your spindle must be oriented correctly for a tool change then it will need an encoder on it.

You dont need special skills to take on these projects as long as you are willing to research, learn and ask questions. It is important however to look before you leap and buy the right tools and parts for wiring. Draw up a full schematic and get it reviewed.

[JasonPORC]

I guess by "real ATC" Marty means one that requires a complex PLC control to actuate tool selection and tool swapping. A simple rack style one can be entirely operated by G and M codes. I.e. move above tool, orient spindle, lower down, grip tool, slide out of rack. This can all be done with a G code macro. However, a more complex tool changer would require a PLC program to rotate the rack, actuate the tool swap arm with switches and timing constraints.

Ideally you want your tool change set up so you can just use T3 M6 type G code rather than having to have a special macro inserted by your post processor. As I mentioned, Centroid said that the controller will not run ATC commands at all without the upgrade. On a side note, if your spindle must be oriented correctly for a tool change then it will need an encoder on it.

You dont need special skills to take on these projects as long as you are willing to research, learn and ask questions. It is important however to look before you leap and buy the right tools and parts for wiring. Draw up a full schematic and get it reviewed.

Thanks for the input! The whole reason I started this process of changing out a working controller was because I upgraded to a 30 taper ATC spindle and got zero assistance from the makers of the router or the control software. (Not surprised, they want to sell me their products. That's ok) I also need to add a braking resister on the VFD for the ATC to work in a timely manor. I don't think I need the encoder for the spindle because it's ISO and doesn't have any location flanges on the tool holders. I'm looking at adding EMI filter and Line Reactors as well, but that's a different post.

In the process of adding the new spindle, I stripped the control cabinet and reworked it. I got a good basic understanding of what works (and what doesn't.) The cabinet was lacking ANY diagrams, labels, and they had all the high and low voltage running side by side. I now have all that done plus added reverse bias diodes on all the induction loads. (and now I've learned about snubbers instead for this panel. lol) I've also added a second control cabinet that now controls my dust collector, and vacuum hold down. It was during that process I discovered minimal support for the controller when I wanted to hook them up to the CNC. Instead of investing more time and money into a lackluster controller, I've decided to spend a few bucks an upgrade to a Centroid. I'm buying the ATC add on along with the Pro License and cables. $2600 seems like a steal to me for this whole package. I'm excited to get this bench tested and start understanding the G and M codes for the ATC, servo calibration and PLC programming.

Here's a couple pics of the cabinets. They look ok to me, and it continues to work. My next one will be even better.

Cheers

Thanks again for the words!

[ashesman]

Your cabinets look good. I would say you will have no trouble doing the Centroid conversion.

You are right, you wont need a spindle encoder if your spindle has no locating lugs.

What do you build on this machine, it sounds like a weapon!

[JasonPORC]

Your cabinets look good. I would say you will have no trouble doing the Centroid conversion.

You are right, you wont need a spindle encoder if your spindle has no locating lugs.

What do you build on this machine, it sounds like a weapon!

Thanks! The machine mainly runs sheet goods for cabinets. Lots and lots of melamine, HPL panels and plywood. In the last couple years I’ve started doing a lot more prototype work for product designers, furniture designers, knife makers, architecture detailing, and recently some pretty cool high end loudspeakers that retail for over 100k. It’s a pretty good mix that keeps my brain busy. And my brain needs to be busy. Ha ha. (Hence the desire to learn about cnc conversions.) I’m also looking to redesign the machine bed (66” x 104”) into one big aluminum fixture plate that allows for quicker indexing/setup and changeovers. But first. We start with the controller. . Thanks again for the input. Happy Friday!