Spindle encoder and fine boring

All things related to Centroid Oak, Allin1DC, MPU11 and Legacy products

Moderator: cnckeith

martyscncgarage
Posts: 7131
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Spindle encoder and fine boring

Post by martyscncgarage »

I believe the Yaskawa V1000 CIMR-VUBA0018FAA is also a 5hp drive that works on single phase as well
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Fueler1
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:04 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 101981

Re: Spindle encoder and fine boring

Post by Fueler1 »

cncsnw wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:49 pm There is a difference between what the manufacturer is willing to guarantee, and what will usually work in practice.

The GS3 drives do not appear to have input phase loss detection, so they will happily run on single-phase power. You probably cannot get full rated output from it, but few people take 5HP cuts on their 5HP bed mills anyway.
That might explain why I had some cuts slow it down when it should not have.

I find it confusing that the Centroid can run off of single or 3 phase but I don't remember anything mentioned as a no go as far as the drives. odd
Fueler1
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:04 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 101981

Re: Spindle encoder and fine boring

Post by Fueler1 »

martyscncgarage wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:46 pm Remember, we can't SEE what you SEE. We can only go on the information provided.
I was under the impression you were LOOKING for a GS3. In that case when you are on the Automationdirect website, there is a selector on the left side of the screen, you input your requirements and it pares down the selection to the unit that best fits your requirements. One of those selections is "Number of Input Phases" in your case needing single phase, you would check the box with ONE.

If you bought the GS3-25P0, then you BOUGHT one of their VFD's requiring 3 phase input. It will likely work, but may not work to its full HP capability.
https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/sh ... e/gs3-25p0

IF your motor is indeed 5hp, there is no GS3 rated for 5hp with single phase input. There is a GS4:
https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/sh ... e/gs4-2015

I don't understand clearly your statement about "Just trying to upgrade the machine capabilities"

Marty
Thanks for the links. I was looking in that direction,
To understand go back to the first post. I do not have spindle orientation control and need it. Hence the upgrade.
Unfortunately I did not choose the wrong drive. It came that way. I'm just a schmuck that did not know enough to doubt the seller.

I guess I always assumed there was some kind of phase conversion going on in there.
martyscncgarage
Posts: 7131
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Spindle encoder and fine boring

Post by martyscncgarage »

Look at the Yaskawa to see if it has a spindle encoder option.
Recently there was a thread in the All in One, Oak Legacy forum. I think someone mentioned a Hitachi that had the encoder board option....
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Fueler1
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:04 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 101981

Re: Spindle encoder and fine boring

Post by Fueler1 »

Here is some info I got from Automation

"Inquiry Details:
I currently have a cnc mill with the Durapluse GS3 vfd. 220v incoming power I need a vfd with braking control and the ability to read a rotary encoder. Can you recommend one to upgrade? thanks

On 12/30/2020 12:08 PM, ADC Support wrote:
Tech Response:
We do not carry a 5 hp drive which can operate on a single phase input which would have an encoder input.
The GS3-25PO is only rated for 5 HP using a 3 phase input. it is not meant to operate on a single phase input.

If the GS3-25PO has been working, you might go ahead with that with the encoder card below.
However, it is not rated for a single phase input.

You can add a encoder input board to the GS3
GS3-FB https://www.automationdirect.com/pn/GS3-FB

The GS3 also has the capabilities of dynamic braking, by using an external braking resistor. the resistor varies depending on the Horse power og your drive.
GS-250-BR https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/se ... archqty=10
martyscncgarage
Posts: 7131
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Spindle encoder and fine boring

Post by martyscncgarage »

Fueler1 wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:20 pm Here is some info I got from Automation

"Inquiry Details:
I currently have a cnc mill with the Durapluse GS3 vfd. 220v incoming power I need a vfd with braking control and the ability to read a rotary encoder. Can you recommend one to upgrade? thanks

On 12/30/2020 12:08 PM, ADC Support wrote:
Tech Response:
We do not carry a 5 hp drive which can operate on a single phase input which would have an encoder input.
The GS3-25PO is only rated for 5 HP using a 3 phase input. it is not meant to operate on a single phase input.

If the GS3-25PO has been working, you might go ahead with that with the encoder card below.
However, it is not rated for a single phase input.

You can add a encoder input board to the GS3
GS3-FB https://www.automationdirect.com/pn/GS3-FB

The GS3 also has the capabilities of dynamic braking, by using an external braking resistor. the resistor varies depending on the Horse power og your drive.
GS-250-BR https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/se ... archqty=10
What are you expecting to do the spindle orient? The VFD? If so, you need to ask or read up to see if it has a spindle orient function.
Some Delta VFD's do.

Marc and Tom could probably recommend other drives.

Something to note. It is said that if the VFD will run on single phase you should double the VFD HP so in your case, if you bought a 10HP VFD you would have added the safety margin. Do your homework on this though.

My Delta VFD on my Atrump Maximill runs fine on single phase and does spindle orient. It is a 7.5hp drive, but my spindle is 100% 5hp duty cycle with 7.5hp at a reduced duty cycle. SO, I have a little margin of safety.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Fueler1
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:04 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 101981

Re: Spindle encoder and fine boring

Post by Fueler1 »

If you don't mind, which Delta did you use on the maximill?
martyscncgarage
Posts: 7131
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Spindle encoder and fine boring

Post by martyscncgarage »

Fueler1 wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:10 pm If you don't mind, which Delta did you use on the maximill?
It came factory equipped with a Delta VFD-VE
See attached.
Attachments
IMG_20201230_203908724.jpg
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Fueler1
Posts: 83
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:04 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 101981

Re: Spindle encoder and fine boring

Post by Fueler1 »

While I ponder which box to buy I am considering adding the encoder card to my current GS3.
Automation is thinking it won't work with the 220 incoming but then he was surprised it actually works at all.
As Marc said for the most part I probably don't use 3 HP capacity anyway.

Attached is the pdf tech sheet on the card.
Anyone see anything wrong with the idea?
https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/sh ... les/gs3-fb

GS3 tech sheet.pdf
(270.79 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
And
HAPPY NEW YEAR (there is no other option 8-) )
martyscncgarage
Posts: 7131
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Spindle encoder and fine boring

Post by martyscncgarage »

It's not unusual for many VFDs to work on single phase. Like I mentioned, if you push it too hard it will fault out.

I mentioned previously, if you need a spindle orient function, then you have to make sure the GS3 is capable of that. I am not sure.

My Delta will receive an orient input, and when complete will provide an output. It's all programming within the VFD.

I would contact A.D. or thoroughly read the manual to see if it's capable.

Marc it Tom may still chime in. They may have more input on this topic.
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Post Reply