new project

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polaraligned
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Re: new project

Post by polaraligned »

chessie wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 12:13 am
this is what was confusing me as well , DC is Dc , if it needs to be clean then that's the issue, as marc said i need the sd3 to be able to keep the control so i have no option than to give it a go .
i will now see what is available to buy or get built to produce a clean around 300v dc supply from 240v 50hz .

the question is in order to supply the sd3 ,with the servos already pictured ,how much power do i need to be aiming for ?

ideal voltage /current

thanks for all your help
I looked at the wiring diagram you posted earlier, it looks like a basic rectifier judging from the component layout. The filter capacitor is only 820 uF, which is pretty small, and falls in line with my earlier statement that 3 phase is easier to filter.

Look at fuse F6 to give you an idea of the max output current.

I would use a basic bridge rectifier circuit with a NTC thermistor in series with the filter capacitor. 1000v PIV, 50A bridge rectifiers are very reasonably priced. You will need 450V capacitor(s). I would probably shoot for 15,000 uF. The 450V units get expensive, but you can parallel a couple if need be- I would just stick to the same brand and series if paralleling.

Just be real careful when messing around with rectifying line voltage. Also, the capacitors can store a very large amount of energy for days, make sure to add bleeder resistors across them.

You can mount the rectifier on a metal panel or other heat sink and wire everything to a terminal strip.
chessie
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Re: new project

Post by chessie »

thank you for the reply
i had a quick look on eBay and these looked easy to mount and connect to
does this look like a good base to build from adding the parts you suggest or can you recommend and all in one off the shelf unit .


according to the drawing f6 is 15a ill check to see if mine is the same
thanks
Attachments
Screenshot 2021-04-18 at 12.21.08.png
polaraligned
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Re: new project

Post by polaraligned »

There is no data sheet on that monster bridge, I would avoid it. It looks like something being dumped on Amazon and Ebay.

I took a look at the picture of the supply that you posted earlier. It looks like there is a nice 3 phase full wave rectifier block on the bottom of that PC board. If I were doing this I would use that same board and rectifier after I confirmed the rectifier being full wave. Pick any 2 AC inputs and you have a single phase bridge rectifier. You should be able to look up the part number on that rectifier and get a datasheet just to make sure it can handle the current.

You need to add filtering. I would remove the current filter capacitor and add an outboard capacitor. Use the heaviest wires you can, and keep them short as you can. You also will need to deal with the inrush current which would not have been a problem with the original capacitor. A SL32 2R025 will work nice.

This is what I did to add more capacitance to my supply, you should be able to do similar. I have 3900uF on the board and 12,000 uF outboard. The capacitors not only smooth the ripple, but they can dump a large amount of energy when the motors need it. So this is one case where bigger is better.
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tblough
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Re: new project

Post by tblough »

That's a single-phase rectifier. You might want to look at the MDS200 series 3-phase rectifiers. Those are all overkill for the 20A or so you actually need but they will work. You'll also need some sort of in-rush current limiter.
Attachments
MDS200Datasheet.pdf
(215.8 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
MDQ200datasheet.pdf
(56.03 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
Cheers,

Tom
Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.
I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are where they should be.
polaraligned
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Re: new project

Post by polaraligned »

tblough wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:15 am That's a single-phase rectifier.
And he wants to run it on single phase. The system already has a 3 phase power supply.
chessie
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Re: new project

Post by chessie »

i have an m400 control
rtk3
sd3 servo drive and servos

i have started to dismantle the machine to start my journey for the rebuild .

i need to know that if i don’t use all the systems on the original machine

tool changer
door lock
ect that sort of thing
will this throw up errors if they are removed ?
if so can any reprogramming correct this and is it easy to do ?

i bought the machine mainly for the mechanicals , but intended to use as much of the electrical as possible ,ive got the sd3 power supply sorted ,and probably sell the 10hp motor and control .

so will the m400 rtk3 sd3 be worth keeping this would be easier for me
or should i be looking at the future rewiring with oak/all in one ?

thanks
cncsnw
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Re: new project

Post by cncsnw »

If you remove and leave disconnected components that the PLC program is designed to expect/require, then you can expect to see errors.

It should not be difficult to modify the PLC program to remove those errors, since they won't apply anymore.
martyscncgarage
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Re: new project

Post by martyscncgarage »

chessie wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:47 am i have an m400 control
rtk3
sd3 servo drive and servos

i have started to dismantle the machine to start my journey for the rebuild .

i need to know that if i don’t use all the systems on the original machine

tool changer
door lock
ect that sort of thing
will this throw up errors if they are removed ?
if so can any reprogramming correct this and is it easy to do ?

i bought the machine mainly for the mechanicals , but intended to use as much of the electrical as possible ,ive got the sd3 power supply sorted ,and probably sell the 10hp motor and control .

so will the m400 rtk3 sd3 be worth keeping this would be easier for me
or should i be looking at the future rewiring with oak/all in one ?

thanks
Marc (cncsnw) mentioned the PLC can be reprogrammed. AND he is your guy to hire to redo it once you get to that point.
I don't see the logic in removing the ATC if it is functioning. But its not my machine.

I believe you need SD3 for those servo motors. SO, if it were me, I would *try* to build a good DC power supply and see if the current control be made to work. (i.e. jog the machine around accurately). If so, I would probably upgrade CNC10 to the latest version possible with the current PC hardware and use the machine. Nothing wrong really with CNC10 other than it is Linux based. If you wanted to upgrade the control to CNC12, then consider MPU11 with Legacy I/O upgrade. That will get you to Windows 10 and the latest version of CNC12.

You can't drive SD3 with OAK. All in One DC is for DC brushed servo motors which you do not have. They are not an option unless you want to remove the servo motors and replace them.

My opinion and .02
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
chessie
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Re: new project

Post by chessie »

martyscncgarage wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 9:48 am


You can't drive SD3 with OAK. All in One DC is for DC brushed servo motors which you do not have. They are not an option unless you want to remove the servo motors and replace them.

My opinion and .02
Marty
thanks
when i get to the position of what is staying and what isn't, ill be in touch im just finding out what's possible and viable and direction of travel at the moment

what type of servos do i have , are they dc brushless as the power supply to sd3 is dc ?
i think i have the 240v ac to dc supply sorted now thanks to someone on the forum .
martyscncgarage
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Re: new project

Post by martyscncgarage »

You have AC brushless Servos made by SEM for Centroid
https://www.sem.co.uk/en/products/ac-br ... named.html

Centroid SD manual: https://www.centroidcnc.com/downloads/sdinst_manual.pdf
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
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