new project

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chessie
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:06 pm
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Location: Portishead UK

new project

Post by chessie »

hi i have reposted this here to put it in the correct place as i will undoubtedly need some help in the future .

i have the chance to buy a vmc that has stopped working giving errors .
its a re badged 2006 mill seiki nc-454la
i plan to do some alterations so that i can run it at home off a 240v supply

the spindle motor ,coolant pump are 3ph 415v
so im presuming i will need a new spindle motor and controller not sure about the geneva toolchanger motor yet

i have to take the control cabinet off as i don't have enough room for the machine with it on so i will resite it somewhere.
so i may need some help on identify what control i have ,is it good enough or out of date and should be replaced
and any general advice that could help me.

thanks
Attachments
serial console .jpeg
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5CF0974C-F0F2-4655-ACBE-E7F6C661AC43_1_105_c.jpeg
chessie
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:06 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Portishead UK

Re: new project

Post by chessie »

hi
so i have an m400 running cnc10
sd3 servo drive
centroid servo motors
rtk3 plc

the vfd is 415v so that will be changed and more than likely the spindle motor

i will have to find a transformer as the one here is 415v stepping down to 240,110,24v
any recommendations welcome
are switching power supplies ok

what would you do to this machine ?
the end goal is to have a half decent mill that i can use in my home workshop 240v
is it worth changing to cnc12 (which i have on my lathe) or keep as is
if so what do i need

i presume if i keep the sd3 then no 4th axis in the future .
i don't need one now but may in the future
thanks
any help appreciated
Attachments
tempImageIUaQsN.gif
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: new project

Post by martyscncgarage »

Did you get schematics with the machine? If so, what is the drawing number?
I would work towards getting the machine up and running with the current control first on single phase power.
THEN worry about the Spindle drive and spindle motor.
I believe you have options to upgrade that control while keeping the current drives and servos.
I would personally NOT remove or move that cabinet.
Please post overall pictures of the machine.
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
chessie
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:06 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Portishead UK

Re: new project

Post by chessie »

things are moving on and i am going to pick up the machine at the weekend .
i cannot find a schematic for this machine as is . if anyone has a link that would be great .
in order for it to fit in my garage i will dismantle the machine and use the components where i can to build a new machine ,so a big project.

are there any generic schematics for a typical mill build using the m400 and rtk3 that i can use to get me started .
thanks
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: new project

Post by martyscncgarage »

chessie wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:24 am things are moving on and i am going to pick up the machine at the weekend .
i cannot find a schematic for this machine as is . if anyone has a link that would be great .
in order for it to fit in my garage i will dismantle the machine and use the components where i can to build a new machine ,so a big project.

are there any generic schematics for a typical mill build using the m400 and rtk3 that i can use to get me started .
thanks
Send the serial number on the back of the operator's control cabinet (10483) to support@centroidcnc.com and ask for the history and schematic of the machine.

If the machine is operational, I would use it as-is. Once you get a schematic, post it here for us to look at.
I would not dismantle the control yet! Tool changer is complex. If the only thing you have to worry about is the spindle motor, and drive leave it for last. Lube pumps and flood coolant pumps can be changed out.

IF it can be powered up before the move and you can get a report off the control F7 Utilities, F7 Create Report, post it here. Unsure if it has USB or Floppy only. At least we can take a look at the errors.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
chessie
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:06 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Portishead UK

Re: new project

Post by chessie »

thanks today i managed to get a report zip from the machine before it is dismantled .
the machine worked , was then stood unused for a time , had a new motherboard fitted with slightly different connections , it wouldn't start came up with errors the owner my friend had had enough and offered it to me as a long term project to get to work off single phase 220v in my garage at home .so he may have connected it wrong ?


schematic from centroid and report attached

some of the above pictures show the sd3 and a servo motor ..What power supply do you recommend for this as the original 415v transformer cannot be used by me.

also the rtk3 in the picture shows 3ph power input . what power supply will i need to power this ? when i get the machine apart i expect this to become apparent from what its wired to but until then pre armed with knowledge will help me spend wisely

thanks
.
Attachments
K0500013.pdf
(674.69 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
report.zip
(129.44 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
cncsnw
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: new project

Post by cncsnw »

The servo power rectifier, which makes DC power for the SD3 drive unit, needs 208-230 VAC input; preferably 3-phase. If the 415V transformer was part of that picture at all, it was to step 415V service down to 208/220/230.

If you have 208-230 power already (isn't 220V standard in the UK?) then you don't need the transformer to run the M400 console or the SD3 drive.

The msg_log.txt file in the report shows:

Code: Select all

Timeout: 64180 not responding
Error occurred sending line 58
102 Error initializing CPU...cannot continue.
on every startup attempt since July 2020 (presumably when the motherboard was replaced).

This suggests that the CPU10 board is not fully seated in the PCI slot on the computer motherboard. The PC software is attempting to communicate with the CPU10 board through the PCI slot, and is getting no response.

Another possibility, less likely, is that the CPU10 board is dead. Or that something plugged into it is keeping it from running.

Try reseating the CPU10 board in the PCI slot. Also try unplugging the jog panel ribbon cable from the CPU10. There should be no other electronic connections to the CPU10. Incorrect fiber connections cannot prevent the board from responding.
cncsnw
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: new project

Post by cncsnw »

The 3-phase power input to the RTK3 is solely for the purpose of powering the flood coolant pump motor and the tool carousel rotation motor. That is the function of the three ice-cube relays on the middle board.

You will need to find out what voltage those two motors require. It is likely that they can be configured for 220V 3-phase, even if they previously were using 415V.

I cannot tell from your pictures whether power for those motors is still switched through the RTK3. The recommended practice is now to use the relays on the RTK3 only to switch coil power to a set of proper motor starters (contactors with overload relays).

The Control Techniques spindle drive, model SP2401, requires nominal 400V service (380V - 480V). If you do not have that voltage available, then you will need to change the spindle drive and reconfigure the spindle motor. There is some possibility that the big transformer could be used (and maybe was used) to step 220V service up to 415V, just for the spindle drive.
chessie
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:06 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Portishead UK

Re: new project

Post by chessie »

thank you
we have 220v here in the uk

so 220v to the drive power input on the sd3 will drive the servo's ?
in the rtk3 use the relays to switch on a 220v 3ph vfd to power coolant and another for the carousel?

from memory im pretty sure the transformer was step down ,220,110,24v

I was expecting not to use the original spindle and drive ,but i haven't got round to an alternative yet .
cncsnw
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: new project

Post by cncsnw »

so 220v to the drive power input on the sd3 will drive the servo's ?
No.

Review the Centroid schematic you posted, sections G5 and E6. The drive power inputs to the SD3 are DC: ca. 290-340 VDC, from the DIOCAP3P rectifier board.

You put 220VAC into the DIOCAP3P rectifier board. With 220VAC in, you should get between 300VDC and 310VDC out.
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