Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

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Chas
Posts: 33
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Forgot to mention Marc, the servo spindle locks up as it should when the drive motor circuit is closed.
cncsnw
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by cncsnw »

Sorry to be dense, but I do not know what "drive motor circuit is closed" means.

Line power applied the the L1/L2/L3 terminals of the Mitsubishi servo drive, but no enable signal from CNC12 via Oak?

Servo enabled by CNC12, so that the "PID Out" number changes from "Off" to a number, and the CN1B-5 terminal is presumed to be closed to 0VDC?

Some other power circuit? Or some other control circuit?
cncsnw
Posts: 1740
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by cncsnw »

Chas wrote: I have been turning the Z axis motor spindle by hand to try to ascertain if the encoder count per Rev is correct. Initially I got error 410 after almost exactly 360 degrees of rotation but after altering the PID values in the PID config this changed to error 411 after only a few degrees of rotation.
This is the result I would expect if the Centroid CNC12 software thought the drive was enabled, but the drive was not in fact enabled.

You can only get "410 ... position error" and "411 ... full power without motion" stalls on an axis that CNC12 thinks is enabled and holding position.

If you are looking at the PID Configuration screen, you would see a number for "PID Out", in place of the word "Off", any time CNC12 thinks the axis is enabled. If you watch that screen, and you see the axis is enabled, and you are able to turn the motor shaft in spite of that, then you will of course see the "Error" number change (that is the number of encoder counts between the actual motor position, and the intended position that the control is trying to make it hold). You will also see the "Sum" number count up or down. That is the Error value accumulated over time (used with the "integral" term in PID).

Did you remember to wire 24VDC and 0VDC to header H2 on the Oak unit (above the spindle analog connections)?

Did you remember to connect Oak axis header pin 23 (+24V from H2) to Mitsubishi CN1B-13? Are you positive you have a good connection from Oak pin 21 to Mitsubishi CN1B-5?

Does the Mitsubishi drive provide any type of visual indication to show you it is enabled?

How, if at all, does the display on the Mitsubishi drive change when you release Emergency Stop (so that line power was off, and is now on)?
How, if at all, does the display on the Mitsubishi drive then change when you press F3 to open the MDI prompt (causing CNC12 to enable the drives, but without any movement command)?
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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CNC12: Yes
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Hi Marc, apologies for not explaining very well. I will attempt to clarify and answer your questions.
Firstly- The mitsubishi servo drive requires two 240v mains supply inputs. one to the control circuit and the other via terminals L1 & L2 (single phase) which provides power out to the servo motor. Currently the control circuit is powered up with 240v by the same supply input that powers the Oak PSU.
The L1, L2 motor circuit goes via 240v coil contactors the power for which comes via a 240v no volt release stop start switch which in turn goes into a Pilz safety relay the 24v coil of which is powered by the e-stop circuit. This allows me to shut off power to L1 & L2 whilst the e-stop circuit is in the green good to go condition. i hope that part is a little clearer now.
if i power up the control side of the servo drive i get an E6 error which i believe is due to no enable signal from Oak. At this point i believe this is correct and the servo motor is free to turn by hand?.
If i press F3 MDI the alarm code on the servo drive disappears and the servo motor becomes locked indicating the servo is enabled. If i wait without inputting anything into MDI CNC12 faults out again after 15-30 seconds. If i input a move CNC12 faults out immediately i press cycle start.
If i attempt to jog whilst looking at the PID screen i do see movement in the PID Out column and the sum column very very briefly until it faults out again. I have attached the error message log txt. in case you can glean any useful info from it.
H2 is wired correctly with 24VDC and 0VDC from the Oak PSU. Oak axis header pin 23 is connected to CN1B-13 and axis header pin 21 is connected to mitsubishi CN1B pin 5 which is linked to CN1B pin 15 as well.
When F3 MDI is pressed the alarm error E6 on the servo drive display goes out and is not replaced with any further alarm codes so my assumption has been that the servo gets enabled at this point albeit very briefly.
The mitsubishi display still shows error 6 when e-stop is closed or open. The display only changes to no alarm when MDI is pressed. I couldn't determine if the display changes when attempting to jog as it faults immediately.
I hope some of this information is helpful in pointing me in the right direction.
Many thanks again.
Chas
Attachments
msg_log.txt
(39.16 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
martyscncgarage
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by martyscncgarage »

You should probably post a full fresh report, not just the message log. I wish you luck sorting it out!
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
cncsnw
Posts: 1740
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by cncsnw »

At the point where you have released emergency stop, so you expect that your safety relay and contactor circuits are providing 240V line power (motor power) to L1 and L2 on the servo drives, you should check the voltage there at L1 and L2 on the servo drives. Perhaps your power circuit isn't working the way you intended.
Chas wrote:The L1, L2 motor circuit goes via 240v coil contactors the power for which comes via a 240v no volt release stop start switch which in turn goes into a Pilz safety relay the 24v coil of which is powered by the e-stop circuit. This allows me to shut off power to L1 & L2 whilst the e-stop circuit is in the green good to go condition.
That would be a very good way to get exactly the error conditions you are reporting: the Centroid control thinks all is well and power is available, but the servo drives in fact have no power to work with.
martyscncgarage
Posts: 7131
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by martyscncgarage »

What Marc is saying is that LOGIC power to the servo drives need to come on with power to the Control.
MOTOR power should be fed through the Estop contactor.
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Hi Marc and Marty, Logic power for the servo drive is connected to the same input supply that powers the Oak. They both power up together. The main motor circuit connected to L1 & L2 via the Pilz safety relay (powered by the e-stop circuit) is also fine. I have discovered this morning that if i press e-stop reset and the cycle cycle start button ( from the main screen only) the servo drives are enabled. However, they only remain enabled for 15-30 seconds before a fault occurs and the e-stop circuit comes into play. If i attempt to jog or do an MDI input within this 15-30 seconds CNC12 faults immediately. I know the servo motor is on at this point before the fault as it is locked and you are unable to turn it by hand. I have attached this mornings report along with a screen shot showing the PID screen during the 15-30 second enabled period.Hopefully it might give a clue to what's happening. I also did a short video of same but i can't attach it.
I have also played about with encoder values in the motor config and 32,768 corresponds exactly to one full revolution of the motor and to 3.0358mm movement on the DRO which is exactly correct based on 34-56 toothed pulleys and a 5mm pitch ballscrew.
Given that the servo drive does power up it must surely be something in the servo set up in CNC12 that is causing the faulting issues.
Do you think it's worth connecting the rest of the wires at the drive end so i can try positional mode instead of velocity?
Many thanks
Chas
Attachments
report_0528190794_2020-12-27_09-15-30.zip
(166.37 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
IMG_6811.jpg
cncsnw
Posts: 1740
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by cncsnw »

Perhaps your drives are not receiving the analog velocity command. That would explain them holding (at zero velocity) when enabled, but failing to move even as the "PID Out" value climbs to 90% and more.

Do you have a way to measure/monitor the analog velocity command from pins 26 and 25 on the Oak header, to pins 2 and 1 on Mitsubishi CN1B? At a time like that when you took the above picture (enabled, non-zero PID Out) you should measure a non-zero voltage there. For example, a PID Out value of -19 should correspond to about -1.9VDC on the analog.

If the analog voltage is going to the drive, then you have to look at drive configuration to see why the drive is not acting upon it.
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
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CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Hi Marc, I have connected the wires for position control on the flying lead and changed the drive parameters for position control as well as parameter 256 in cnc 12 but I still get error 410 if I attempt to jog or enter mdi data. I’m going to run through all the drive parameters again tomorrow to see if I’ve messed up somewhere but if no luck then I’m going to ditch the Mitsubishi’s and buy some yaskawa sigma 5s and get some yaskawa - oak cables from centroid and start again. Not what I or my wallet wanted to do but I don’t know what else to do. With my limited electronics knowledge a tried and tested system with manuals and tech instructions might be the only way to go. I don’t like being beaten but I’ve tried pretty much every combination without success.
I appreciate all the help given by yourself and others but I could be dead by the time I get this working.
Chas
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