Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

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Chas
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

report_0528190794_2020-12-22_18-52-32.zip
(173.91 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
Sorry, forgot to attach report
martyscncgarage
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by martyscncgarage »

Chas wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 3:28 pm Hi again, thank you for all the help so far, i think i'm making progress. Well, at least i'm at the next hurdle. DRO's are now working and limit/home switches have been connected and are reading correctly, ie green until broken . My problem now is when i try to jog absolutely nothing happens and if i try to do an MDI input to see if the motors work everything faults out instantly with a position error(report attached). This fault signal from CNC12 appears to interrupt the estop circuit as the contactor relays held by the e-stop all release. There is no alarm coming up on the servo drive. Again probably an oversight on my part but any suggestions gratefully received.
Chas, you forgot to attach the report.
If you are getting position error, that's because the control is commanding the motors to move but either there is no feedback, bad feedback or the motors are not moving where they are supposed to be.

Were you able to see the encoders counting when you are in the PID screen? Try and take note of the position of the motor shaft and rotate it one full revolution. About how many counts do you get? Obviously, do this with the control in Estop.
Further when you turn the motor shaft clockwise does the encoder count positive or negative?

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Hi Marty, disconnected the Z axis servo from the ballscrew so i can rotate 360 degrees by hand and this is what i've found. On rotating the servo spindle clockwise (spindle toward you) the PID counts in a negative direction. Encoder counts are set to 32,768 in the motor config which tallies with the counts shown in PID for one revolution (photo attached). The position error fault only comes up once i complete one revolution of the servo motor. The DRO read out is spot on for one revolution of the servo motor based on the gearing ratio i have. Any help gratefully received as i'm so close to getting it all moving yet still so far.
Merry xmas to all.
Attachments
IMG_6780.jpg
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Okay, so i went into PID config and set some initial parameters as suggested in another post as a starting point as everything was set to 0. Now when i rotate the servo motor spindle i get error 411 come up after only a few degrees of rotation. Help desperately needed please.
Chas
Attachments
report_0528190794_2020-12-24_11-44-20.zip
(167.81 KiB) Downloaded 10 times
IMG_6784.jpg
martyscncgarage
Posts: 7131
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by martyscncgarage »

First you should be doing all of this testing with the motors disconnected from the machine.
Second. Have you ascertained what the encoder counts are set to?

From your report you have two different encoder counts set in the control for each axis:
1 Z 3.0358000000000001 32768 0.0000 1 2 0 2 Y N
2 X 3.3333300000000001 16384 0.0000 3 4 0 4 N N

First, you need to know the encoder's pulse per revolution value. That is what needs to be entered into the control.
For example, if the encoder is a 2000ppr encoder, then 8000 needs to be entered into the control.

According to the Centroid Installation Manuals for Oak and All in One DC, when you turn the motor shaft counter clockwise, the encoder counts should in the ABS Position field in PID INCREASE when looking at the shaft. It appears it they are counting correctly. Once you have the encoder counts set properly, in otherwords when you rotate the motor shaft ONE full revolution, the ABS Position display reads the correct encoder count. I would leave it alone and start looking for other setup issues.

If you have Estop pressed, no faults should be showing. You should not be turning spindle motors by hand without Estop being pressed and the control off line.

Just my thoughts this morning....I do NOT have the experience that Marc (CNCSNW) has with this type of setup. So take my suggestions with a grain of salt....
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
martyscncgarage
Posts: 7131
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by martyscncgarage »

Hopefully Marc or Tom will chime in with more suggestions.
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
martyscncgarage
Posts: 7131
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by martyscncgarage »

Chas, can you post a manual for the Mitsubishi drive? Do these drives have software you can communicate with for tuning?
I noted in your report you have them setup for Velocity mode. (I know nothing about these drives) I do know that the control needs to be setup for Precision or Velocity mode.
Can you post a picture of your control cabinet/wiring?
Are you using Centroid data cables to the drive? It would help if we had a bigger picture.
(Again, I have no experience with the drives you are using, but more information posted the better picture might be painted and better suggestions might be given)

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
cncsnw
Posts: 1740
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by cncsnw »

Chas wrote:Now when i rotate the servo motor spindle i get error 411 come up after only a few degrees of rotation.
I am confused. Do you mean that you are turning the servo motor shaft with your fingers (and are able to do so, even though the Centroid control thinks the drive is enabled)?

Or do you mean that you are using Centroid axis jogging controls, and the motor does move under its own power for a few degrees, but then you get the 411 stall condition?

Or do you mean that you are using the Centroid axis jogging controls, and though you have used those controls to request movement that would have been a few degrees of rotation, the motor has not moved at all, and then you get the 411 stall condition?

Is there any visual indication on the Mitsubishi drives that tells you whether they are enabled (i.e. in a "run" mode, as opposed to a "base blocked" mode)?

Have you confirmed that you have line power to the drives when you release emergency stop?
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Hi Marc, my control circuit for the drives is powered up at the same time as the Oak is powered up. The power circuit for the motors goes through a circuit controlled by the e-stop but I can test with the estop circuit closed as I have a no volt release in that circuit too. I have been turning the Z axis motor spindle by hand to try to ascertain if the encoder count per Rev is correct. Initially I got error 410 after almost exactly 360 degrees of rotation but after altering the PID values in the PID config this changed to error 411 after only a few degrees of rotation. Initially I tried jogging from vcp but got no movement then tried inputting by MDI and immediately got error faults.
Both motors have been run on the bench using the Mitsubishi software to run them and they work perfectly forward and reverse.
Chas
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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CNC12: Yes
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Hi Marty , rest assured nothing is connected to ballscrews whilst doing testing. The Mitsubishi manual is already attached along with a schematic kindly supplied by Marc ( sh30006j.pdf & K102381-2 .pdf). Could be I’m not interpreting parameters 27 and 54 correctly. The info gives the encoder as 131072 but I don’t know if this is lines or counts. If I can get the encoder value correct in CNC 12 motor parameters and set parameters 27 & 54 correctly on the servo drive then I can possibly remove this as a possible reason for the faults and look elsewhere. PID out does not change even briefly from off.
Chas
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