Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

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Chas
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Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Hi, i have finally got back to setting up my Denford cnc lathe after many months off the project for various reasons. I am at the point of doing the initial set up but i cannot get past the point in CNC12 where output one is supposed to turn green when input 11 is green . Cycling the e-stop turns input 11 on and off as it should but without resorting to ctrl alt F to force output 1 to change i cannot get the relay on the Oak board associated with E-stop output to close and allow 24v back to the e-stop safety relay. When forced the output relay closes and output 1 turns green so i know the relay is not faulty. I'm sure it's something simple that i'm missing but i don't know what.
I'm running Mitsubishi MR-J2S servos with HC-KFS motors with 131072 count encoders which i may need some advise on setting up but until i can get the safety relay to function that problem is further down the line.
Report Zip attached.
Thanks
Charlie
Attachments
report_0528190794_2020-12-13_12-21-36.zip
(167.78 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
cncsnw
Posts: 1756
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by cncsnw »

With standard PLC logic, NoFaultOut_O (OUT1) will close only if there is no E-stop or Fault condition. Since you have confirmed your E-stop button is not open, you can conclude you have some other fault condition present.

PLC code:

Code: Select all

;--Handle Faults
IF !EStopOk_I || PLCFault_M || SV_STALL_ERROR || SpindleFault_M ||
   LubeFault_M || AxisFault_M || ProbeFault_M || OtherFault_M THEN SET SV_STOP
;...
IF !SV_STOP THEN (NoFaultOut_O)
PLCFault_M, SpindleFault_M, LubeFault_M, AxisFault_M, ProbeFault_M and OtherFault_M are all memory bits that you can view on the Alt-i screen. They all reflect conditions that are detected and set by other parts of the PLC program.

SV_STALL_ERROR is set by CNC12 code running on the Oak, if it detects a stall condition. The PLC program echoes it to Stall_M (MEM48), so you can view it on the Alt-i screen as well.

My guess is that you are getting a stall condition, due to the encoder connection errors that are reported every time you start up.

From your message log:

Code: Select all

(1)   12-12-2020 17:04:22 199 CNC Started
(1)   12-12-2020 17:04:26 CNC12-D Lathe v4.14
(4)   12-12-2020 17:04:26 2099 Message Cleared
(1)   12-12-2020 17:04:26 412 MPG1 encoder error
(1)   12-12-2020 17:04:26 412 X axis(1) encoder differential error
(1)   12-12-2020 17:04:26 412 MPG1 encoder error
(1)   12-12-2020 17:04:26 412 Z axis(2) encoder differential error
(1)   12-12-2020 17:04:26 412 MPG1 encoder error
(1)   12-12-2020 17:04:26 407 X- limit (#50001) tripped
(1)   12-12-2020 17:04:26 407 Z- limit (#50003) tripped
(4)   12-12-2020 17:04:27 9033 Reset Initiated, Press Reset to Clear
The "MPG1 encoder error" message does not matter, but the X and Z axis encoder errors are fatal.
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Many thanks, i have gone back a step and removed all the encoder settings and the E-stop output now works. Now i need to go back through the encoder settings one at a time till i get it all to function.
I did a bit of reading on the forum and came across a post you answered where RTech was having an issue with axis assignments and readouts on his lathe conversion. I am assuming i also need to assign the Z axis to axis 1 and X to axis 2 instead of the way round i originally had them?.
i have a 5000ppr direct drive encoder on the spindle which i was intending to connect to encoder input 6.
Should i be putting a value of 5000 into the encoder value box or should i be multipyling that value by 4. Same question re the servo motor encoder values , should i be putting in the 131072 value or again multiplying those values by 4 and can CNC12 deal with those very high resolution encoder numbers?
cncsnw
Posts: 1756
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by cncsnw »

Yes, you have to make axis #1 Z, and axis #2 X.

If your spindle encoder has 5000 lines (5000 "ppr"), then you need to enter 20000 in Parameter 34. See http://www.cncsnw.com/Quadrature.htm

I have no idea whether Mitsubishi mean 131072 counts (edges), or 131072 lines (cycles) per revolution. In either case, it is likely you will need to program the drives to output less than that, if you want to reliably run the servos at higher RPM. Search for some information about encoder bandwidth limitations for MPU11/Oak/Allin1DC hardware. For example, the first page of Tech Bulletin 267.
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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CNC12: Yes
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Great, thank you for the help. I will have a read up and hopefully have a clearer idea of what needs to be done.
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Okay, i have got the output 1 issue resolved and have confirmation of encoder communication for spindle and X and Z axis following the PID menu instructions in section 6.2 of the manual. However no readout in any of the DRO's. Following on from that i have another issue. As i am using Mitsubishi MR-J2S servo drives i have made two cables up using centroid flying leads following the attached schematic kindly supplied by cncsnw some time ago.(attached) As can be seen from the schematic Pin 21 (enable from oak connector)is connected to EMG and SON at the drive side and should enable the servo drive but unfortunately all i'm getting is an E6 error message from the drive. This is an emergency stop error code which i'm assuming means pin 21 is not completing the signal ground circuit to either SON or EMG which is preventing the drive from being enabled. what is the best way to check if i'm getting the necessary signals from the Oak board to enable the drive. I'm guessing i may have made an error in setting something up in CNC12 as i have double checked the cables and they are correctly wired. The drives and motors have also been bench tested using the Mitsubishi test software and they work just fine.
Finally, i had some concerns over the very high encoder count on the mitsubishi motors and reading through the mitsubishi manual it looks like parameters 27 & 54 if altered allow the drive to send a lower encoder count to the Oak board but i'm not sure.
Attached are wiring schematic, Mitsubishi manual and latest report.
Any assistance gratefully received.
Attachments
sh030006j.pdf
(5.5 MiB) Downloaded 14 times
K102381_2 (6).PDF
(257.21 KiB) Downloaded 16 times
report_0528190794_2020-12-20_16-50-51.zip
(164.94 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
tblough
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Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by tblough »

You will have dashes on the DRO display until the machine is homed. Your machine home type is set to "jog" so you will need to use the jog panel to move your machine to the home position and then press cycle start. The dashes in the DRO should then be replaced with numbers.
Cheers,

Tom
Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.
I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are where they should be.
cncsnw
Posts: 1756
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by cncsnw »

There is no easy way to directly inspect the Oak axis enable outputs. Indirectly, but good enough for most purposes: on the PID Configuration screen, the "PID Out" column will show either "Off" if the axis is not enabled, or a number (+/- 0-100) if the axis is enabled.

Do you see "PID Out" change from "Off" to a number, when you try to jog an axis? Perhaps only very briefly, before some type of fault causes the axis to be disabled again?

Looking at the Mitsubishi manual, it looks like "E6" is more of a Warning condition: it should clear automatically when the EMG terminal is closed, without requiring a RESET action.

You could of course try jumpering EMG (CN1B-15) to SG (CN1B-20, or chained from ST1 / CN1B-8) rather than having it switched with the enable.
cncsnw
Posts: 1756
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by cncsnw »

You will of course need to make sure that all of your limit inputs (INP1 - INP4) are closed/green, before you can reliably try to jog axes.
Chas
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:25 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: Cannot get output 1 in CNC12 to turn green without forcing.

Post by Chas »

Hi again, thank you for all the help so far, i think i'm making progress. Well, at least i'm at the next hurdle. DRO's are now working and limit/home switches have been connected and are reading correctly, ie green until broken . My problem now is when i try to jog absolutely nothing happens and if i try to do an MDI input to see if the motors work everything faults out instantly with a position error(report attached). This fault signal from CNC12 appears to interrupt the estop circuit as the contactor relays held by the e-stop all release. There is no alarm coming up on the servo drive. Again probably an oversight on my part but any suggestions gratefully received.
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