New Oak Install

All things related to Centroid Oak, Allin1DC, MPU11 and Legacy products

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martyscncgarage
Posts: 8237
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: New Oak Install

Post by martyscncgarage »

Just like to see pictures of your project.
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Aly-Tek
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:56 pm
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CNC Control System Serial Number: A900869
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Re: New Oak Install

Post by Aly-Tek »

Hey CrossFireX, do you have the Fuji Frenic 5000 MS5 VFD?

I may have the cable you need for your MPG also as I replaced all my cables for the servos and drivers but it won't have the fancy coil to it :P

I could only wish mine was under 10K so far I'm pushing 20K including cables and fittings.

One thing that really gets me riled up is the instructions for fitment. It says to do a bench test but I had it done before it shipped here so when I tried to do it the instructions didn't match up. THEN after the controller is wired in I find out I've wired all my ADD1616 points different to what is in the PLC so I now had to change the PLC to suit my wiring (I think it was easier that way then re-running the wiring) then the damn PLC program won't find my PLC file so I had to change the original that was installed.....

All I can say is when I do my second machine it will be a breeze :P haha ha ha haaa :/

Anyway, I'll try and have all the wiring i've done and posted here by Monday ;)
Many Thanks
Stephen @ Aly-Tek :D
CrossfireX
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
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DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

HI Marty,

this is probably the only photo I have of the machine, I have thousands of photos but they're all specific component photos. I took this photo yesterday, as it currently sits. I have photos from when I bought it and got it delivered but the guarding is all removed etc, so this is the only photo of the complete machine.

if there's any photos you want of specific components, just let me know, I have thousands, but most are detailed strip/replacement/detail photos.
Attachments
Mill1.jpg
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
CrossfireX
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

HI Stephen,

Yes I have the Frenic 5000MS5, and mine has the option card as well. The option card is where the problem is. The Frenic manual gives you a wiring diagram which I had already matched up with the Centroid before I purchased it, I thought it would be a walk in the park, but then when I came to wiring up the frenic I realised (rooky error) that it was not wired up anything close to the manual. Mine has CN6 though CN9 connectors (I assume yours does too), and most of the connections to mine are through them, I only have a handful of wires going to the CN3 through CN6 connectors, the rest are through the option card. I've contacted CNC Machinery Sales (they originally sold the machine) they gave me all the info they had but it was bugger-all, they are trying to chase more. I've contacted Fuji direct and they didn't even bother get back to me, then I contacted their Australian agent, they put me onto another mob, they emailed Fuji on my behalf, Fuji got back to them and asked for more information, I sent them all the info they asked for and I haven't heard back since. Apparently there's a guru in Australia named Robin Youngerblood (so I've been told) but nobody has heard form his in years, I've been trying to track him down with no luck.

Regarding the MPG, I just need the cable going from the Oak to the console. I bought a brand new MPG last year to replace the worn out one on the machine, and it's wired up with a super heavy duty stainless plug, so if I get the centroid cable I'll replace plug on the end anyhow to reuse my nice heavy duty staino one. at the moment I have run 2 runs of CAT5 cable for commissioning, but I'll do it properly once I've finished it all off. if you have the cable I'm looking for and ya don't want it, I'll happily take it of your hands, just let us know. did ya wanna DM me your number and I'll give ya a bell next week? or just send us a DM with what ya want for it?

As for the cost, my costs were able to be kept down because of two reasons: all of my motors and drives were in good condition and tested OK, and, I'm doing all the work myself in my "spare time" so I'm not booking labour to it. I'm still working and doing paid jobs in the meantime, and quoting jobs. If I factored labour in, I would be up around the $20k mark by now, and at tax time I will add all that in, but I'm not factoring it into the equation for now.

I purchased the Oak, M400, Yaskawa cables for 4 axis', PLCADD1616, Probe cable (Plan on adding a probe later) and mill pro license, some tech support which I am saving for now, and with shipping it all came out around $9k AUD (I got lucky and bought it when the USD dipped and saved a couple of hundred there, purely by luck) so with the few extra things I've had to buy: terminals, cable, switches, snubbers (forgot to order from Centroid), and new connectors for the frenic, and all up it's still a fair way under $10k but I'm expecting it to push over when it's all said an done.

I just purchased a couple of switches because the old unit used to power on with a latching contactor setup, so you can turn on the main isolator and only the cabinet fan and main transformer power up until you hit the green button then the system fires up. I liked that setup, it just gives another level of protection for $20... I just got a green NO button and a red NC button and wired them in a latching circuit to the K1 contactor which then provides power to the DC power supplies, Oak Board and console, then all the other contactors are controlled from the Oak as per normal. I don;t know if it's really any "safer" but I like it. I didn't like the idea of the whole machine powering up from throwing the main isolator. I hid them under a cover too, So that nobody can turn the machine on that hasn't been familiarized. It's just a little more idiot proof.
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8237
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: New Oak Install

Post by martyscncgarage »

Wow, nice machine. Love to see your build pictures. Consider buying the Centroid wireless MPG. No cable. USB connection only
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
CrossfireX
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

Hi Matry,

Thanks, I guess I don't think of it as a nice machine, Since I've bought it i've had so much trouble with it, So when i look at it I just see a bunch of wasted time and money (in Australia we call it a WOFTAM, I'm sure you can figure it out). But I think Centroid will solve all of my problems with it, and then It will be a nice machine. I haven't taken any build pics really, Only strip pics. I'm not really into documenting everything, I starting taking videos to make a youtube video of the process, but it was just slowing me down too much and I really wanted to get this thing up and running, I'm just quoting a $40k job for this machine, so if I can get it running in the next week, the conversion will pay for itself within a month... Once it's running I might do a summary video with some tips and tricks for anyone considering the same thing, I think it's the fairest thing I can do to share my knowledge and experience to help the next guy out. While I can't ever pay it back I can always pay it forward. I mean, your video on bench-testing the Oak was by far the single most valuable resource I've seen, I watched it maybe 10 times while I was doing the bench test. Until I watched it I could not figure out the faults. If I can make a video that helped someone as much as yours did, I would sleep well at night.

In regards to the MPG, I'm not into wireless stuff hey, the batteries are always charged... until you need them... I always think of overhead cranes with wireless controllers, every time you need to do a lift the batteries are flat. I refuse to have a wireless controller on any crane I ever own.

When I quit my last job and went consulting, before I decided to start my own shop, I went to nearly every manufacturing facility in town doing consulting work, and the one thing I noticed more than anything else, was how much time each facility wasted with flat batteries on their crane remotes. one workshop I went to had 4 overhead cranes, 4 remotes, 4 battery chargers and 8 batteries, and it was the apprentices job to cycle the batteries through the chargers at break times and at the end of the shift, but still they had downtime due to flat batteries. I won't have it. I'd much rather have the constraints of a cord, than the constraints of having to replace a battery half way through a lift. I know an MPG pendant is different to a crane remote, but the feeling still sticks, I just don't trust them.

I would buy a drone, but they only come in wireless. haha
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
CrossfireX
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

Hi Marty,

If you could take a look over this I would very much appreciate it.

This is the drive interface from the manual for the Frenic 5000ms5 spindle drive. It is only the "Typical" installation and doesn't include the option cards which are present in my machine.
spindle connections maybe
spindle connections maybe

I have been in contact with the OEM, and the Fuji Rep and have had no success in retrieving any information about the option card yet. I have, however, mapped all of the pins and there is only a couple that I cannot find the purpose of, the rest are all good to go. can you please take a moment to check out this spreadsheet and let me know your comments or concerns? the sPindle is the last piece of the puzzle (aside from a custom PLC to run my tool changer and 4th axis, but I can live without them for now) to finalize the installation.
Frenic pinouts.xlsx
Frenic spindle drive pinouts
(12.51 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
Also if you can point me in the right direction for the rigid tap command pinout for the centroid, that would also be wonderful. I have seen it somewhere, but I don't know where I saw it.

Thanks Marty

Jason
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
cncsnw
Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: New Oak Install

Post by cncsnw »

Your annotated diagram looks correct, for basic control (on/off, direction, speed, fault detection and reset).

Do yourself a favor and wire the zero-speed detection signal (CN3-11) to INP12 on the Oak. It can be handy for a lot of things.

If the previous control had no connection to the run-reverse input, then it probably used a bipolar analog signal (+/-10VDC) to control both speed and direction. You can do the same with Oak, freeing up OUT8 and giving yourself some additional options for orientation.

Was the mystery option card related to spindle orientation for the tool changer?

Centroid has no wired connection for a "rigid tap command". To do rigid tapping, you need:
1) Normal spindle speed and direction control, and
2) Spindle encoder feedback wired to one of the encoder inputs on the Oak (usually encoder #6)
3) The "Pro" level software license (which is practically mandatory for any serious machine)
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8237
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: New Oak Install

Post by martyscncgarage »

Marc (cncsnw) said it best and is by far more qualified than I am (and many of us)
You have a very experienced individual providing some assistance.
You might consider retaining his services to help you through the conversion....

I have no experience with that Fuji spindle drive. I am wondering if the "Option Card" handles the encoder input/output and tool change.
If so, you will have to look for numbers on that card and try Fuji again so you know its pin out assignments. Posting pictures here would be very helpful.
We can not "SEE" what you "SEE"

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
CrossfireX
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

Thanks Marty and Marc.

Marc, Yes you are correct in the +/-10VDC assumption, I just wasn't aware that the Centroid could do that. I will wire the Zero-speed connection to the INP12 as you mentioned, thank for the heads up there, I was wondering what to do with it. I will send you a PM when I finish typing this message.

Yes I believe the option card was related to the tool changer etc. as you can see by my spreadsheet, the encoder input into the Frenic unit was on the option card CN8 (I should have mentioned that without the option card, the Frenic unit only goes to CN5, so CN6 thru CN9 are the option card) and it appears as though the Encoder signal went into the CN8 and went out of CN9 to the Anilam unit. I have the full Anilam Manual which came with the machine, but it's very vague for the IO connections aside from the main connectors. everything IO related is machine specific and there is no way I can find to retrieve the information from the machine. See below photos from the manual relating to spindle control:
Spindle connection for Anilam controller
Spindle connection for Anilam controller
Spindle control requirements Anilam
Spindle control requirements Anilam
Marty, I have contacted Fuji directly, they didn't even bother to reply, then I contacted their Australian representative (one of them, who put me onto another, and so on until I found someone that would help), He contacted Fuji on my behalf and they came back asking for more information, I gave them all of the information they asked for an have never heard back, I've followed up the email several times with no response. I've spoken to the people who Originally sold the machine in Australia, they tried chasing it up and came up with nothing either. They gave me the name of a guru who would know about it, but they said they hadn't heard form him in 10-15 years, I have searched far and wide to track him down with no luck. I'm not on any social media, but I got my wife to search on Bookface too and she came up with nothing.
Spindle Drive
Spindle Drive
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
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