New Oak Install

All things related to Centroid Oak, Allin1DC, MPU11 and Legacy products

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Aly-Tek
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:56 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900869
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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New Oak Install

Post by Aly-Tek »

Hello everyone,

I am near the end of my retro fit on my Extron Mill but I am stuck on some terminology to connect some cables from my Fuji Frenic 5000 MS5 VFD.

I am trying to find information on connecting the CN3 and CN7 cables from the VFD to the OAK.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/Icarus/DOCUMEN ... s_1083.pdf
http://hinode-vn.vn/data/images/media/1 ... ATALOG.pdf

The first URL is the manual for the VFD and provides the pinouts for CN3 (p106) (also pic attached) but I am unable to understand the terminology between the systems (fuji & OAK)

The second URL was all I could find for the OPC2-MS5-PE options card that shows the pinouts for CN7 (p15) and only uses 4 of the wires 1,2,3,5 & 6 (5 & 6 joined) but I am unable to understand the terminology, I do believe it has something to do with Spindle orientation as I have a umbrella style ATC and on the original system (Mirl2000) it had a ORTC button that performed the orientation.

Any help would be greatly appreciated
Cheers,
Stephen
Attachments
20201103_103231[1].jpg
Many Thanks
Stephen @ Aly-Tek :D
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: New Oak Install

Post by martyscncgarage »

Stephen,
Fairly complex and different drive. First I have no experience with a Fuji Drive.
Second, you should test the drive without connecting it to Oak.
Third. DO NOT USE CN3 pin 6 it is SOURCING voltage for a potentiometer DO NOT CONNECT THAT TO OAK!
You should use CN3-7 for Analog Input and CNC3-8 for Analog Com
It looks to me that CNC-12 would be for an AT SPEED input to Oak to let the control know the VFD is at the commanded speed.

You can test the drive by using a bench top power supply to provide 0-10VDC at CN3-7 and CN3-8 (You are mimicking the analog input from Oak. Oak supplies the 0-10VDC signal)

You can then use a simple switch from CN3-5 (control Input Common) to input CN3-1 (forward, and then you can test CN3-2 Reverse)

Turn your bench power supply to 0, turn on your switch to complete the Forward circuit and then gradually bring the voltage up to see if the spindle motor comes on.

If you get that to work, then you can check the other lines like Speed Arrival Detection.

You also show Speedmeter, I do not believe there is anyway to connect that to OAK. So don't
The Load Meter, must be a 0-10VDC Analog output (I believe)

A couple of screen shots below. Please make sure I got the correct ones.
Maybe CNCSNW (Marc Leonard) might have more to add. It took some time to dig into this a little.
But I would not hook anything up to OAK until you "Bench Test" the drive first.

Marty
Fuji diagram.JPG
Pin out definitiions.JPG
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: New Oak Install

Post by martyscncgarage »

Also, your wiring color codes mean nothing to us.
Make a spreadsheet showing all 20 pins on CN3 in one column with the description and in a second column, the Oak connections.
Then post it.
Again, I would not hook up that drive to Oak at all until I bench test verified its operation first and completely understood how each of the drive inputs and outputs work (RTFM, Read the Friggin' Manual :D )

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
cncsnw
Posts: 2039
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: New Oak Install

Post by cncsnw »

You can infer a little more from the attached schematic, from a ca. 1999-2000 Centroid system that used the same Fuji spindle drive (probably on the same machine: an Extron/Atrump BxAC). I think Centroid has CN3/13 and CN3/14 mixed up here, but otherwise it is probably representative of what you need to hook up.

This is not the easiest diagram to read, of course. If you can figure it out from this one, you could probably have figured it out just from the Fuji manuals....
Attachments
K0000026.pdf
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CrossfireX
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

Hi Stephen, did you ever get this sorted out? I am having the exact same problem, well pretty much, I'm up in Mackay and doing a conversion away from an Anilam 5000M to a Centroid Oak, and I've got everything sorted now except the spindle drive and it's giving me massive headaches. any help you can give me I would be very much appreciative. I'd be happy to shout you a beer for your help, next time I'm down in Brizzy.

If anyone else has any help on this too, I would very much appreciate it. I can provide the original wiring (I mapped it out myself and drew it in EasyEDA, it's not good but it accurate).
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
Aly-Tek
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2020 7:56 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900869
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Contact:

Re: New Oak Install

Post by Aly-Tek »

CrossfireX wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:21 am Hi Stephen, did you ever get this sorted out? I am having the exact same problem, well pretty much, I'm up in Mackay and doing a conversion away from an Anilam 5000M to a Centroid Oak, and I've got everything sorted now except the spindle drive and it's giving me massive headaches. any help you can give me I would be very much appreciative. I'd be happy to shout you a beer for your help, next time I'm down in Brizzy.

If anyone else has any help on this too, I would very much appreciate it. I can provide the original wiring (I mapped it out myself and drew it in EasyEDA, it's not good but it accurate).
Hi CrossfireX,

I have the Spindle inverter sorted (I'll get together the wiring diagram and pass it on ;) ). I've ran out of money so far :( I had tried to re-use the drives and servos but can't for some reason get them to work. I've decided now that i'm in such a big hole with this why not dig a little deeper and just replace them too :roll:

Now that all is said and mostly done i'm not sure i'd ever go down this path again. The cost to replace everything would have made a great deposit on a new machine that would have hit the ground running... :evil:
Many Thanks
Stephen @ Aly-Tek :D
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: New Oak Install

Post by martyscncgarage »

Unfortunately, folks looking to do a retrofit, just look at the cost of the motion controller. They miss ALL the other components it takes.
When I did my knee mill with All in One several years ago, it cost about $4000ish in parts, VFD's (there was a VFD for the knee) encoders, cables etc. The only thing I kept were the servo motors.

Yes, it can get expensive and yes, the machine I had was worth the conversion because it was a hardly used CNC mill.
Acorn really shines when it comes to refitting old CNC knee mills/lathes etc, but its still expensive!

I hope you get a lot of use out of your machine. I DO look forward to seeing you post in the Success Stories forum. Show off your work.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
CrossfireX
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

Thanks Stephen, I really appreciate any help you can send. As I said, I will happily buy you a beer next time I'm down in Brizzy, and I'd love to take a look at your machine, maybe I can help in some way from my own experience.

Marty:

I lost 3 months of milling work because of my old controller playing up, and my insurance never covered it at the time (lesson learned), so I bit the bullet and went with a retrofit. I looked at many many options and eventually decided that the Centroid system was the best fit for me. I considered everything before I started and, I have mapped out every pin in my machine and put them all in a spreadsheet and drawn the whole schematic in EasyEDA, I did this while I was trouble shooting the old controller (Anilam 5000M) which had strange intermittent faults and was causing me to be up all night wondering if I'd get the job done the next day or not. I factored in every cost imaginable, and I thought I had the spindle control understood when I ordered the controller, but when it came time to hook it up, I realised it was not as straight forward as I first thought. Everything else has gone as planned (except a communication error between the M400 and the Oak board, but I got that sorted) so far apart from the controller. My controller arrived last friday and I expected to have the machine moving by Monday, ready for commissioning, but here I am on Thursday and still trying to figure out the spindle.

So far my retrofit has cost a fraction over $10k AUD, I had always budgeted $10k so I'm mostly on track, the only budget blow out so far was that I thought the MPG cable was included in the conduit kit, but it wasn't, so I have to make one or buy one, and finding the right cable locally is like finding rocking-horse shit, I would have to order in a whole roll (100m) which is gonna cost me around $500... I've made a temporary cable out of 2 runs of Ethernet Cable, and that will have to do until I get the right cable. I will most likely just buy the correct cable from Centroid, but I will wait until the rest of the machine is sorted in case I have to purchase anything else form them.

For anyone looking to go down this road, here's a little lesson: on the Centroid website for the MPG (https://www.centroidcnc.com/cnc_handwheel.html) it says that if you order the M400 or the conduit kit (I ordered both), you don't need to order the MPG cable, BUT... what they don't tell you is: if you don't order the MPG, they don't include the cable... It's contradictory, I know, and I was furious when I was hooking up the conduit, but I have contacted them about it and they have clarified. I'm still disappointment and it has left a slightly sour taste in my mouth, but I'm not going to let it stop me from getting the most out of my machine.

If there's any help anyone can provide I would happily offer any help I can provide in return. If you want I can post the pinout spreadsheet for reference if that would help.
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: New Oak Install

Post by martyscncgarage »

It sounds like you got a wired cabinet and console from Centroid?
You didn't order an MPG yet you thought the console was prewired with the MPG Header? Confused. Were you going to order it later?
Pictures of the machine and what you ordered would be helpful.
It sounds like the sticking point was the spindle drive?
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
CrossfireX
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

Hi Marty, I bought the M400, Oak, and conduit Kit. I'm in Mackay, Australia, in the whutsunday region. I Read the page and it said that if you order the M400 or the conduit kit (i ordered both) then you didn't need to order the cable, Otherwise I would have ordered it. Anyhow, it's done now. Fortunately, the way the conduit runs on my machine, it's very easy to add another cable to the conduit, and I ran a pull-thru in the conduit so I can easily add more later if I need to.

What pictures would you like of my machine, I have a few, which parts exactly would you like a picture of?

Yes the spindle drive is the only hold up so far, I haven't wired up the ATC yet though, so I expect to have a couple of little issues there, although on paper it's all sorted and everything matches up, I'm sure something will come up that throws me off. I'm just tidying up all the wiring now and sorting out a way to power the system up in a way that I like (the old system had on and off buttons on the console to switch on a contactor that provided power to the system (after the main isolator), So I'm tossing up whether to do the same thing again, or to have the main contactor powered off the main isloator so as soon as I de-isloate, the system fire up. Haven't decided that yet but it's not a huge hang up. everything else is going ahead nicely. I can hardly wait to get it running, I'm a little excited, have to keep holding myself back from doing something stupid.
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
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