New Oak Install

All things related to Centroid Oak, Allin1DC, MPU11 and Legacy products

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cncsnw
Posts: 3763
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: New Oak Install

Post by cncsnw »

Jason,

This is not going to be the silver bullet you are looking for, but it may help. Attached are a Centroid schematic and tech bulletin, which applied to Taiwanese tool-changer machines ca. 1999-2000, using Fuji Frenic 5000 spindle drives.

Unfortunately whoever drew the schematic did not detail CN6 - CN9 at the Fuji drive. They did, however, label the PLC connections on the Koyo modules at the top of the page.

Input module 1 confirms what you already know: CN3-11 is zero speed, CN3-12 is at-speed, CN3-13/14 is a fault indication.
The analog module confirms that CN3-7 and CN3-8 are the analog speed command (frequency reference).

Output module 1 suggests that CN7-3 is the spindle-orient command (when closed to CN7-5 or CN7-6).
Input module 1 further suggests that CN7-2 is the orient completion signal from the Fuji drive to the PLC. Since that module has +24V to CA, it uses current-sourcing inputs, and expects the Fuji drive to close CN7-2 to 0VDC when orientation is complete.

It looks like CN6 is only for the star/delta contactor interface. It does not appear that there are connections from the CNC/PLC to tell the Fuji drive when to switch contactors, so the drive must manage those on its own.

It looks like CN8 is the incoming spindle encoder signal, which you don't need to change.
It looks like CN9 is the spindle encoder output to the CNC, and you have found enough information about that to connect it to the Oak.

I see in your list for CN4 the inputs from a control relay, related to a "rigid tap" command. Most likely that has the effect of reducing accel/decel time, or otherwise making the spindle drive more "servo-like". It wouldn't hurt to wire that to a spare Centroid PLC output, so that it is available if you want or need to experiment with it.

The attached tech bulletin related to the specific PLC programming and control features that Centroid provided 22 years ago. A lot has changed since then. However, there are some pointers in there for configuring the Fuji drive and setting the orient position. Those may apply to the drive you have.
Attachments
067.pdf
(14.23 KiB) Downloaded 109 times
K0000026.pdf
(289.81 KiB) Downloaded 113 times
CrossfireX
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

Hey thanks for that, someone else sent me that same schematic, but I disregarded it as it has CN3-2 connected as well. did you get my PM? I'm drafting you a list of IO now.
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
CrossfireX
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

Hi Marc, Ive had a good look over, and I think you are correct in your assumptions above. I’ll post an updated spindle connection spreadsheet today which I think will be right. How would I do +/-10v from the Oak though? I have searched beyond sanity and cannot find anything on the subject. I’m keen to take up your offer though, I’ve lost a whole week to this machine now.
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
CrossfireX
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

HI everyone, I think I have this all figured out, sorta, here is the latest spreadsheet for the Frenic Pinouts.
Frenic pinouts.xlsx
Frenic Pinouts
(13.67 KiB) Downloaded 118 times
I can't hardly wait to have this sorted and never look at it again.
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
cncsnw
Posts: 3763
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: New Oak Install

Post by cncsnw »

CrossfireX wrote: How would I do +/-10v from the Oak though?
With a Centroid factory PLC program, you use output forcing on the Alt-i screen to force OUT15 and OUT16 on. However, not all factory programs have the necessary calculations in the spindle speed section.

With my PLC programs, you add 4 to Parameter 178 (i.e. set bit 2), and leave OUT15 and OUT16 un-forced.
CrossfireX
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

Thanks Marc, I'll just wait for your program I think. this is way over my head. I'm really just posting this stuff so the next person has a trail of breadcrumbs to follow. There's a lot of these frenic drives in Australia (and probably all over the world), No doubt someone else will be wondering this stuff again at some point so if I post everything I find out about it, the next person will be able to solve the problem quicker.

I can't pay back the favors of others, but I can pay them forward.
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
CrossfireX
Posts: 31
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:47 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: A900998
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Mackay, Australia

Re: New Oak Install

Post by CrossfireX »

HI Everyone, it's been a few weeks without coming here, so I just thought I'd provide an update:

The machine is working without the ATC and the 4th axis, I've been so busy I haven't had a chance to work on those last little things. I quoted a huge turning job before I finished the retrofit, and I won it, so I've been doing 14 hour days to try and get through it, along with doing my reliability stuff that I do, and the specialty installation stuff I quite often get asked to do, I really haven't had the time to work on the machine. I've used it to make a couple of jigs and tooling for the shop, and I've turned out a couple of small paying jobs on it, but mostly it's just been sitting there waiting for me to finish it off. My big project will be finished tuesday or wednesday next week (most likely Wednesday) then I'll hopefully get a day to finish off the machine.

I did contact Marc (CNCSNW) who has been super helpful, I could not have gotten this far without his help. I thoroughly recommend anyone that's thinking about doing a retrofit, contact him first, before you even think about it, just get the low down on what you will actually need to do. If I had contacted him before I started, my journey would have been a lot easier and I would have been done a lot sooner.

I'm not a CNC machine technician, so a lot of this has been new to me, I'm not an electrician, I'm not an electronics wizz, I'm a fitter and turner that owns a few machines and is trying to save a bit of money, so to have a resource like Marc available is the single most important valuable thing you can have when you're trying to do this kind of thing. If I was a hobby guy with a hobby machine and doing this in my spare time it might have been a different story, but I have a business to run and customers to look after, so I don't have the time to fiddle around with this stuff.

I have taken some footage on the go-pro's and on the phones, so I will try to upload a video once everything is working, it's literally just 2 small things, and one I think I can solve easily when I get time, the other is an unknown, so hopefully next week I'll have an update and a video to share with you all on the success story that is the Centroid Oak.

Cheers everyone

Jason
If the green light ain't burning, you ain't earning.

Jason A.K.A. CrossfireX
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: New Oak Install

Post by martyscncgarage »

Good to hear Jason.
If I have PLC work, I generally would turn to Marc.
Looking forward to the final chapter in your conversion.
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
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