Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

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LorenCoffin
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Re: Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

Post by LorenCoffin »

By the way, Marty, it was me that posted on one of your YT videos last night as a plea to discuss this.
martyscncgarage
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Re: Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

Post by martyscncgarage »

LorenCoffin wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:54 am I own the same model these motors come from. My wiring manual labels them as dc motors. I chose the wrong tech to fix an issue with the Y axis and now the control has big pronlems.
Still need more information. Please take pictures of your control cabinet including the make and model of spindle drive and servo drives.
Your "Tech" should be held responsible and or find you a technician that can properly diagnose the issue.

Where are you located? Centroid has representatives around the country.
IF you take the time to post the information, control cabinet pictures, drive pictures, make and model of the servo drives in the cabinet (Probably a YASNAC control?) and the spindle drive. That would help, or do you not know what I am talking about?

VERY rough ball park estimate to refit a machine with an ATC would be about $20-$25K if you hire it out.
Does that help you?

You will get better advice if you TAKE THE TIME TO POST pictures and the information requested of YOUR machine

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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Re: Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

Post by martyscncgarage »

LorenCoffin wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 10:57 am By the way, Marty, it was me that posted on one of your YT videos last night as a plea to discuss this.
Yep, I realize this, but I also said to post pictures of your machine and the drives.
We don't know what you have, we can't say if you can reuse some or any of it. How old is the machine? 80's?
Condition of the iron?
It becomes a question of whether or not the machine is worth the investment of retrofitting.
What do you think you want to spend on a refit? Do you feel you have to hire someone to do it? If Centroid built a complete control cabinet, could you install and configure the machine? Do you have the electrical and electronic skills to carry out the conversion?

We are very happy to provide help and suggestions. We just need some more information from you....
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
cncsnw
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Re: Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

Post by cncsnw »

Yes, those are DC motors.

It is my understanding that "cup" motors have very low inertia, and therefore may respond differently from the motors we more typically use with the Allin1DC. The only way to know whether they will be controllable and will perform acceptably, will be to try them.

The "feedback unit" is indeed an encoder, but it is not the right kind of encoder. The label indicates it uses 12VDC, where Centroid supplies 5VDC; and it does not have differential output (there are no complementary /A, /B and /Z channels). Therefore you would need to install different encoders on the motors in order to use them.

If you are proficient with electronics, you could build a line driver interface to convert the signals from the existing feedback unit into 5V differential. I would strongly discourage running a machine like that in the long term, but a breadboard circuit would be adequate to test-run a motor and see whether they are controllable.
cncsnw
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Re: Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

Post by cncsnw »

To answer your original question, you need:
1) A computer which will run Microsoft Windows and the Centroid CNC12 control software (separate, or built into an M400 style console)
2) A Centroid control unit (Oak, Allin1DC, MPU11+GPIO4D, etc.)
3) Servo drives (amplifiers) for each axis (3rd-party drives, or an Allin1DC, or Centroid ACDC drives, etc.)
4) Servo motors for each axis (original or new, AC or DC)
5) Encoder feedback, coming either directly from the motor, or fed through the servo drive, to send position to the control unit.
6) A monitor and keyboard (separate, or built into an M400 style console, or in an all-in-one PC)
7) An operator control panel (either built into an M400 style console, or in an M39 style handheld pendant, or just an on-screen virtual control panel)
8) An emergency stop button (either built into an M400 console or M39 pendant, or a separate button in a box or on a panel)
9) Supporting electrics to provide power to the drives, provide power to the computer, implement emergency stopping, etc.

As Tom indicated, there are countless combinations that can be chosen, depending on your needs and the particulars of your machine.
LorenCoffin
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Re: Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

Post by LorenCoffin »

I added a link to the album in the first post.
LorenCoffin
Posts: 23
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Location: Western Or.

Re: Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

Post by LorenCoffin »

cncsnw wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:09 pm To answer your original question, you need:
1) A computer which will run Microsoft Windows and the Centroid CNC12 control software (separate, or built into an M400 style console)
2) A Centroid control unit (Oak, Allin1DC, MPU11+GPIO4D, etc.)
3) Servo drives (amplifiers) for each axis (3rd-party drives, or an Allin1DC, or Centroid ACDC drives, etc.)
4) Servo motors for each axis (original or new, AC or DC)
5) Encoder feedback, coming either directly from the motor, or fed through the servo drive, to send position to the control unit.
6) A monitor and keyboard (separate, or built into an M400 style console, or in an all-in-one PC)
7) An operator control panel (either built into an M400 style console, or in an M39 style handheld pendant, or just an on-screen virtual control panel)
8) An emergency stop button (either built into an M400 console or M39 pendant, or a separate button in a box or on a panel)
9) Supporting electrics to provide power to the drives, provide power to the computer, implement emergency stopping, etc.

As Tom indicated, there are countless combinations that can be chosen, depending on your needs and the particulars of your machine.
1. is handled.
2. looks like Allin1 is the route to go since my motors are way under it's drive capabilities?
3. Am I reading the board info pages right in that the Ai1 won't need additional drives as it handles that chore?
4. Mine were working before the big control snafu so hoping to run them. 68v, 8a cont. 38a peak.
5. Going by a few people's comments I'll need encoders.
6. With the PC I just got to run Fusion360.
7. The existing controls can't be used with the new setup, or just some will need to be added?
8. EStop on the existing control
9. Still need to learn more about that bunch.
aamir
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Re: Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

Post by aamir »

Loren
I retrofit Matsura500
The motor is DC with Max voltage is 70VDC.
You can use the existing Motor but keep in mind max voltage could not go beyond 70 also you need to install the new encoder on it . My motor has 12V single ended encoders .
Orientation is Mechanical.
U can use the varispeed inverter with centroid .
All in1DC is the best choice .
Attached is the Pic of Mat sura500

Aamir
Attachments
Screenshot_20200925-093330.png
LorenCoffin
Posts: 23
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Location: Western Or.

Re: Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

Post by LorenCoffin »

aamir wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:29 am Loren
I retrofit Matsura500
The motor is DC with Max voltage is 70VDC.
You can use the existing Motor but keep in mind max voltage could not go beyond 70 also you need to install the new encoder on it . My motor has 12V single ended encoders .
Orientation is Mechanical.
U can use the varispeed inverter with centroid .
All in1DC is the best choice .
Attached is the Pic of Mat sura500

Aamir
Have you had good luck with the tool changer and other "extras"?
You say the motor is dc, axis motors you mean right? My spindle motor is ac by the name tag
martyscncgarage
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Re: Newbie basics, is there a "What do I need" page for laymen?

Post by martyscncgarage »

Post the name tag of the spindle motor....
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
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