Lathe Spindle Encoder

All things related to Centroid Oak, Allin1DC, MPU11 and Legacy products

Moderator: cnckeith

promisemachining
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:59 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 0327060180, T39 A90089, M-39s 3535, M-39s 3770, M400ac/inv, M400ac/atc 10388
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes

Lathe Spindle Encoder

Post by promisemachining »

Sirs, Now that I have my M39S serial #3535 booted up. I am ready to move forward on my Lagun CNC Lathe retro fit. It has the original Dynapath control on it. I plan to use the M39S control with SEM 40 DC servos from Centroid to drive it. I will contact Centroid tomorrow about getting the flash card software converted over for a lathe. The encoder on the lathe cuck spindle is timing belt driven to a Kuroda Model #Pulcen A86L-0027-0001. Pictures attached. Assuming that the existing encoder is not compatible with my Centroid system. What do you guys recomend to replace the existing unit with. I have been to the Centroid site and did not find anything that looked robust enough to replace my exsting encoder on this machine. Is there anything else that I should be looking at before I get started on this project?
DSCN2027.JPG
DSCN2026.JPG
DSCN2025.JPG
cncsnw
Posts: 3765
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Lathe Spindle Encoder

Post by cncsnw »

I would take a closer look at the existing encoder. What pattern is the MS connector on it? How many conductors are in the existing cable? Do you have any documentation from the old control, showing the spindle encoder cable connection?

If you do replace the encoder, you either need a heavy duty industrial encoder similar to this:
https://www.usdigital.com/products/enco ... shaft/HD25
... or you need to fabricate your own mount with an intermediate shaft, supported by bearings, then mount any encoder (such as the ones Centroid sells) on a flex mount on the other end of the shaft. That will isolate the encoder from the radial load of the belt. At the same time you could provide a minimal enclosure to protect the encoder from oil and dust in the environment.
promisemachining
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:59 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 0327060180, T39 A90089, M-39s 3535, M-39s 3770, M400ac/inv, M400ac/atc 10388
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes

Re: Lathe Spindle Encoder

Post by promisemachining »

Sirs, It would be great to be able to use the existing encoder. I have attached pictures of the encoder and its connections. I scanned 2 pages from the machine manual that have the wiring and parameter information about the spindle encoder. I am assuming that the encoder is fairly high quality. The read out on the Dynapath 20 display shows .00001" for travel dimensions. The lathe was built in 1990.
IMG_0111.jpg
IMG_0114.jpg
Lagun Spindle from manual.pdf
(2.34 MiB) Downloaded 122 times
tblough
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:03 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: 100505
100327
102696
103432
7804732B977B-0624192192
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Lathe Spindle Encoder

Post by tblough »

That encoder should do just fine. It looks to be 1024 lines (4096 counts) per rev, and 5V differential quadrature. You will probably need to replace the connector on the far end of the cable to match the Centroid pinout, or make a short adapter cable.
Cheers,

Tom
Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.
I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are where they should be.
promisemachining
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:59 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 0327060180, T39 A90089, M-39s 3535, M-39s 3770, M400ac/inv, M400ac/atc 10388
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes

Re: Lathe Spindle Encoder

Post by promisemachining »

Thank you for the information. I am not sure what is on the other end of the connector cable at this point, The encoder cable goes into a wireway. looking inside the control cabine its not obvious where it comes out. Where will it conect on the centroid system and what type of connector will I need? Does it connect to the computer or the All in 1 DC control. This machine has a 4 speed gearbox in the headstock and an inverter drive on it for rpm control. I have 2 other centroid systems that have inverter drives in them. I will be using one of those (Mitsubisi Frequol A500).
DSCN2034.JPG
tblough
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:03 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: 100505
100327
102696
103432
7804732B977B-0624192192
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Lathe Spindle Encoder

Post by tblough »

The encoder cable will connect to one of the DE 9-pin connectors (either 5 or 6) on the AllIn1DC.
Cheers,

Tom
Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.
I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are where they should be.
promisemachining
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:59 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 0327060180, T39 A90089, M-39s 3535, M-39s 3770, M400ac/inv, M400ac/atc 10388
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes

Re: Lathe Spindle Encoder

Post by promisemachining »

I told you wrong on the DC Drive. My fault. It is a 3 axis servo drive W/PLC sercvo3IO Rev10605.
I do not see any DE 9-pin connectors.
I have attached pctures of what I do have
DSCN2035.JPG
DSCN2036.JPG
DSCN2037.JPG
tblough
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:03 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: 100505
100327
102696
103432
7804732B977B-0624192192
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Lathe Spindle Encoder

Post by tblough »

Untitled-1.jpg
Cheers,

Tom
Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.
I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are where they should be.
promisemachining
Posts: 79
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:59 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 0327060180, T39 A90089, M-39s 3535, M-39s 3770, M400ac/inv, M400ac/atc 10388
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes

Re: Lathe Spindle Encoder

Post by promisemachining »

Ok, Thank you.
I have been on the phone with Centroid to see about getting the flash drive software changed from Mill to Lathe. They are recomending that I go to the Alln1DCboard and upgrade to the windows 10 instead of sticking with the M39S.
Another item that needs to figgure into this equation is my 4 positon air opperated tool post. It would be nice to control it from the program. Picture Attached.
I own 6 Centroid systems and have 2 of them installed on Bridgeport Boss mills and 1 is almost done on a 2 axis knee mill. I am verry happy with what I have. The goal here is to have all 4 CNC Mills and my CNC Lathe with Centroid controls on them.
I am do really well on the machining, electrical and mechanical side, not so good with the electronic side. That needs to figgure into the equation as well.
Maybe its time to do the upgrade. Your thoughts Please.
DSCN2038.JPG
cncsnw
Posts: 3765
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Lathe Spindle Encoder

Post by cncsnw »

Upgrading to an Allin1DC would be nice in a lot of ways, particularly if your other machines are running CNC11 or CNC12.

However, it is not necessary just to get this lathe running.

There would be extra hardware required to get the turret running with the SERVO3IO unit, because it only has a couple relay outputs. Its other outputs are open-collector transistors, which require that you use external relays or SSR's to switch the actual load devices.

If the turret only requires one or two outputs, then you would probably have enough relay outputs on an Allin1DC unit. If the turret somehow requires three or four outputs, you would probably need to add a PLCADD1616 expansion board to the Allin1DC. But ultimately, that depends on how many other output devices you have: Lube? Flood coolant? Mist coolant? Collet closer? VFD reset? Work light? Spindle brake?
Post Reply