Centroid Community CNC Support Forum

thanks Marc

i just looked at the automation direct relays and geez no wonder why they work well they are either rebranded or exact copy of the Schneider's. if they are a copy its amazing that Schneider has not gone after them, they look identical other than the color.

im decided on the layout. im gonna go with the pc in the console having it away from the vfd and the servo drives makes a lot of sense as does getting the line reactor and filters close to the drives they serve.

i have made a decision to get rid of all the 120v ancillaries, getting rid of both of the transformers t1 & t2 frees up a bunch of space. The lube pump will rewire to 240 so will the pc, someone had already wired the flood coolant to 240v, i can change the cabinet fans to 240 or 24vdc then everything else is either 24vdc or 240vac. i will order up a bunch of 782-2C relays as i want both legs switched.

i'm wondering if i should try and salvage the old controls for cycle start/hold feed rate spindle speed override (not even sure if that's even possible hooking in via the wired mpg port?), or go all touch screen with a mechanical estop and wireless mpg. Part of me thinks having some physical buttons is infinitely better but coughing up the 3k for the centroid console is out of the question at the moment so i will probably just go touch screen and wireless mpg route, until i see some return from the outlay i have already put into the machine.

Use the touch screen and the wireless MPG for those basic functions, I don't see the need for them.
I even use Alt-s for cycle start many times on the keyboard.
You can add what you want, just need to find an input and assign it in the PLC.

Marty

This is how I build my control panels:


I like having the physical buttons. Takes up a few inputs. Worth it to me.

slodat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:34 am This is how I build my control panels:

I like having the physical buttons. Takes up a few inputs. Worth it to me.

looks cool i think i remember seeing that picture before, so you basically chewed up half the inputs on the acorn to do that? i'm assuming you have the expansion board?

i was kinda hoping i could tap into the mpg and the console connectors on the oak and not eat up the regular inputs, if that cant be done then i will probably just stick with the touch screen and wireless mpg, i could always buy the centroid handheld operator console take it apart and build it into a custom console but spending $700 to then immediately hack it up feels kinda wrong

MPG you can as it's discrete 5V inputs along with the encoder. Jog panel will require some reverse engineering as it's encoded by the on-board microprocessor. You'll have to decipher the communication protocol.

Yeah I was thinking that, the mpg connection looks like it's pin for pin, the console connection must have some kind of communication protocol as there isn't enough pins compared to no of buttons

I will stick with the touch screen and see how I get on for now, it's been perfectly fine on the little mill with acorn, but the size of the screen on this machine will be quite a bit smaller due to size limitations on the console so i might not like it. I can always change my mind later. For now I'm just going to focus on getting it converted and running again as there is still lots of work to do.

I had a bit of luck on the relays, automation direct were out of the ones I wanted, I had a rummage through my stash and found some I forgot I had out of a box of 10 there were 9 in there I really should have a good sort out one day and inventory everything.

so i have made a little more progress. this weekend i managed to gut out the rest of the unnecessary rats nest of wires. i also started marking up all the wire numbers on the wiring schematics.

im still waiting on the standoffs for the plcadd1616 board they seem to be held up somewhere due to bad weather i guess.

anyway pulled out the 120v transformer as i decided im just going to run the whole machine 240v. going by the dmm manual these new drives need about double the power of the old dc motors, it seems a little odd as the motors coming out are 1.3kw and the ones going i are 1.3kw. regardless i put in a bigger breaker and ran another 6ga feed from the main shut off to the new breaker for the drive motor power.
the 6ga goes from the main shutoff into the new 40a breaker then there is are 12ga jumpers from the top of the 40a breaker to the 4a breaker to the left. the 40a will run the servo axis motor power and the 4a will run the axis servo logic power. red is the axis motor power and blue is the logic power

the motor power comes down the center cable channel and into the 45a line reactor, then from there into the main contractor for the axis drives, out of the contractor into some terminal blocks then it feeds from there to each drive, the terminal blocks i have are not rated for the amperage or 6ga input cable so im waiting on the correct ones, again stuck in the usps black hole for over a week now grr. advice i read for the line reactor was to run l1 to the left and l2 to the far right as its only single phase i have no 3rd leg. not sure how much it matters but i will go with it. if anyone has any comments about the line reactor setup I'm all ears, i have never ran single phase through one before so no idea how it will behave.

the logic power also comes down the center channel 12ga wire (yes i know its overkill but i have 100ft of at zero cost ) it goes into a line filter then to the terminal blocks and out to the logic power on each drive. again i went with a single line filter even though dmm recommend one per drive, it just seems overkill and Marty had good success on the fadal with a single line filter for all drives.

here is a picture of the current state of play. its coming along but time in the week is limited to make progress. done quire a bit of tidying up. the oak/input logic psu's are mounted under the oak, I'm undecided if im going to mount the 6a 24v relay psu/solenoid psu under the oak too. im thinking maybe mount it on the right wall of the cabinet as i may have to put terminal strips there anyway if some of the wires are too short.

i mounted the line reactor horizontally as it worked out better with a din rail below for mounting the terminal strips and contactor for the axis drives. once im happy with the layout i will label up all the cables to match the wiring diagrams

Im still undecided on grounding, the Bridgeport grounding scheme was a bit of a mess there were ground lugs all over the back panel, I'm thinking that it may be better to change to a star topology and take all the grounds back to a single point/bus bar? anyone have any thoughts on that?

relays are the next thing going in need to cut down some din rail and mount it. i missed my window tonight, i have to do it before the baby goes to sleep tomorrow night

Where you have 12ga wires paired with 6ga wires at the top of the 40A breaker, be sure to give each 12ga wire a firm tug after you are done tightening the terminal screw, to be sure it is secure.

With a pair of wires of greatly differing size, it is hard to get the smaller wire adequately clamped.

If/when you mount switching power supplies behind the Oak unit, be sure that the terminal screws peek out far enough to be readily visible and accessible (maybe 3/4" clear of the edge of the Oak mounting frame).

cncsnw wrote: ↑Wed Feb 09, 2022 2:59 am Where you have 12ga wires paired with 6ga wires at the top of the 40A breaker, be sure to give each 12ga wire a firm tug after you are done tightening the terminal screw, to be sure it is secure.

With a pair of wires of greatly differing size, it is hard to get the smaller wire adequately clamped.

If/when you mount switching power supplies behind the Oak unit, be sure that the terminal screws peek out far enough to be readily visible and accessible (maybe 3/4" clear of the edge of the Oak mounting frame).

Marc gives good advice. I poke my power supply terminals out from underneath Oak or All in One DC so you can measure voltages.
I personally like to take all the grounds to one place and use a ground buss bar.

Marty

thanks that's good advice on the power supplies under the oak i think they are sticking out just about enough, i did manage to get a screw driver in there and wire them up so hopefully its fine.

i know what you mean regarding the 12ga pairing up to the 6ga, as i cable tied it one started to pull loose, so i undid them, sat the 6g at the back then put the 12 ga in front at a slight angle to stop it opting to go one side or the other as i tightened it, its stranded wire so with the amount of pressure i put on the screw terminal it should have mushed one into the other . i found the key is pulling out the good set of electrical screw drivers i use for work so i could get a proper grip on the screw heads.

the thing i was thinking about during the day is the main breaker for the axis drives is 40a it goes to the 45a line reactor through the 50amp contactor then to the terminal blocks. that's all in 6ga but then from the terminal blocks to the drives its only 12ga. now technically that's a bit hazardous only being 12ga wire on a 40a breaker, I'm pretty sure it would still trip if it was a dead short but I'm wondering if i should fuse those 12ga lines or add additional breakers near the drives. If i go that way then I'm getting really short on space in the bottom of the cabinet. i guess i could do a test and dead short it to see what happens first, breaker trips or wire goes super nuclear toasty I'm very very tempted to completely ignore DMM's manual and throw the old 25a breaker back in and see if it trips when i rapid all axis at the same time.

The combined wattage of all 4 motors is 4.9kw so at 240v that's 20.4 amps. realistically the rotary wont be pulling anywhere near its rating so its more like x/y/z 3900w 16.5A. i think they are calculating the load based on a heavy full speed startup induction motor which isn't what were really dealing with here these are servos so they have a controllable acceleration curve. ideally id like to have the lowest rated breaker possible my brain is telling me a 25amp, c or d curve breaker would be adequate. i might go download a drive manual from another manufacturer and see what they suggest for a similar sized system.