How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

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Deere103
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:42 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
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CNC Control System Serial Number: A901133

How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

Post by Deere103 »

I have some confusion over how to wire the spindle outputs. I don't know exactly how to wire the spindle enable and how to properly allow oak to switch the spindle directions.

currently I have the inverter reset connected to 116 which feeds the e stop (this no longer goes through the original relay 7cr). this currently has to be force enabled to have any spindle movement. I may have this wrong and this is supposed to be the "spindle enable" output?

currently for spindle enable I am using output 21 from the old machine wiring which feeds a relay that energizes 118 (spindle cw) when closed. this may also be wrong. My old wiring has no obvious ccw spindle enable or reversing method so I'm a bit lost on this.

if I force enable the inv reset, and spindle enable in i/o I get very slow spindle rotation. if I then force enable the spindle orient request it will get oriented and lock the spindle in position. however, it should be noted that this slow rotation is ccw.

in summary, I'm unsure if I have the proper wiring for inverter reset, and I don't know how to wire the spindle enable, direction, for cw and ccw (no/bc) control from oak. any input would be appreciated as well as if anyone has any suggestions on how to handle the rigid tapping command (soft start cancel) as I'll eventually have to cross that bridge too!

other current connections:
124 to analog in load meter
112 to in12 zero speed
115 to plc1616 in 1
108 low air to plc1616 in 2

113 (up to speed) ,114 (spindle alarm) , 125 (soft start cancel), currently unused

Thanks everyone!

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Deere103
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:42 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A901133

Re: How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

Post by Deere103 »

forgot one other thing that may be important...I am currently using wire 70 on diagram below as the inverter ok input in10.
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cncsnw
Posts: 2699
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

Post by cncsnw »

I cannot spend the time required to search out your past posts in other threads; find out if you have posted a recent report; find out (again) just what model spindle drive this is; and somehow integrate the wiring descriptions from your text with your posted wiring diagram pictures (which I assume all show how the old control was wired, and do not show how you have wired the new control).

So you are mostly on your own.

Here are a few pointers that may help:
1) The old control probably used a bipolar analog command, so it only needed to close one drive input ("SPINDLE CW") to run, then it would probably send +/- 0-10 VDC to command both direction and speed. You could do that with an Oak (you are using Oak, right?); or you could wire another output from your PLC (typically the NO contact from the OUT8 relay) to a "SPINDLE CCW" input to your drive, and use unipolar (0-10VDC) analog.
2) You should probably make sure your emergency stop relay controls the "E STOP" input to the spindle drive.

And to answer the question in your subject line, assuming that you have identified both "SPINDLE CW" and "SPINDLE CCW" inputs to your spindle drive, and assuming (since you have not posted a Report) that you are running an unmodified Centroid factory PLC program:
You wire the spindle drive's sequence common wire (e.g. 117, from 1CN/32) to OUT7 COM on the Oak.
You wire OUT7 to OUT8 COM, optionally going through one contact of your emergency stop relay or contactor.
You wire OUT8NC to the spindle drive's "SPINDLE CW" input.
You wire OUT8NO to the spindle drive's "SPINDLE CCW" input.

The PLC program, of course, names OUT7 as "SpindleEnableOut" or something similar, and closes it whenever the spindle is supposed to run.
The PLC program names OUT8 as "SpindleDirectionOut" or something similar, and activates it whenever the spindle is supposed to run in reverse.
Deere103
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:42 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
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MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A901133

Re: How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

Post by Deere103 »

I apologize for not properly posting the required information. I am on my phone, but I will generate a report.zip file to post here as soon as I can. I will also sketch out a wiring diagram of how I currently have things wired.

Machine/component info:

republic lagun vmc 3516 (previous control was Siemens acramatic 2100), w/ 8000/1000 rpm spindle, spindle encoder for rigid tapping, and 18 post umbrella tool changer. mist, flood, auto lube, air pressure controlled tool changer

24vdc control system

yaskawa servo amps: sgdb-30adg
yaskawa AC motors: sgmg-30a2ab
encoders: utoph-81awf (incremental 8192 pul/Rev)
spindle vfd: yaskawa 626vm3

New control: oak with plc1616 and wireless mpg

I think you are probably right about reversing the polarity of the voltage from +/- 10 vdc to control the speed and direction, but I'm still unsure how to wire this using the oak outputs. what you wrote makes sense, but I don't know which wire to use for out 8 NO the spindle ccw

the e stop relay stops all secondary control voltage when pressed. the way this is separated on the old wiring diagrams is "10" is 24 vdc when e stop is pressed. once the main é stop contactor is energized the 24 vdc control power is sent through "28". com is "1" on the control side
cncsnw
Posts: 2699
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

Post by cncsnw »

If you are going to use bipolar analog, then you do not need to use OUT8 or a "SPINDLE CCW" drive input at all. You would just wire OUT7 to the "SPINDLE CW" drive input.
Deere103
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:42 pm
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MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
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CNC Control System Serial Number: A901133

Re: How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

Post by Deere103 »

attached is the most recent report

I have rewired the spindle drive as you mentioned but don't currently know how to test the proper function.

I currently have these I/O wired, but am I mistaken that the inverter ok IN 10 and INV reset OUT5 are handled through the yaskawa drive cables H3,H4,H5?

I don't have a "currently as wired" wiring diagram finished yet for you, apologies

hopefully I will be able to get the servo motors to be able to jog and find home after I get the comm cable delivered. I did verify the servo drives are in position mode via CNC 12 parameters, but I have no way of knowing how the drives themselves are programmed.

is there a parameter that needs to be changed to configure the bipolar analog control?

thanks for your patience and help
Attachments
report_0008DC111213-0526221306_2022-06-22_20-43-05.zip
(563.61 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
cncsnw
Posts: 2699
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

Post by cncsnw »

The ATC PLC program you are using apparently does not support bipolar analog speed and direction control.

You might want to just use "Centroid-Mill-Standard-OAK-r7.src" until you get your basic functions (emergency stop, axis movement, spindle, way lube, etc.) working. That way you don't need to worry about satisfying all the requirements of the tool changer system as well.

That non-ATC program does support bipolar analog control: you just use the Ctrl-Alt-F feature to "force" OUT15 and OUT16 both on.

You test spindle function by:
1) Clearing all fault conditions, so that when you release Emergency Stop, OUT1 "NoFaultOut" turns green and stays green.
2) Selecting Manual spindle control with the spindle Auto/Man button
3) Pressing the green Spindle Start button
4) Verifying that OUT7 turns green
5) Verifying that you have an analog voltage coming from the analog output on H2
6) Verifying that the analog voltage increases when you press the spindle speed "+" button
cncsnw
Posts: 2699
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

Post by cncsnw »

am I mistaken that the inverter ok IN 10 and INV reset OUT5 are handled through the yaskawa drive cables H3,H4,H5?
Yes, you are mistaken.

Oak headers H3, H4 and H5 are for the servo drive interface cables to the axis drives.

None of those cables are connected to your spindle drive.

You need to wire your spindle drive "okay" signal to INP10, on the PLC Input side of the Oak unit, using any standard wiring diagram for guidance. For example, supposing you connected 0VDC (the common side of your PLC inputs supply) to 1CN/44 on your spindle drive, then you could connect 1CN/42 to INP10 to complete the circuit.

If you want to have the ability to reset spindle fault conditions through the Centroid PLC, then you need to wire the spindle drive's Reset input though the OUT5 relay, among the PLC outputs along the top edge of the Oak. If you cannot identify a Reset input on the spindle drive, just ignore it for now. If the spindle drive ever faults, you can always shut down and cycle the power.
Deere103
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:42 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: A901133

Re: How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

Post by Deere103 »

thanks,
all really good info. I will be out of town until Monday, but excited to try these suggestions when I return and should have the comm cable to check programming on the yaskawa drives then and hopefully get them is position control mode.

It's weird the bipolar analog control is only available in the standard mill setup, but it's good to know. Maybe it's better if I just connect to one of my unused plc ports as you suggested since I will just be kicking the can down the road if I want to get my ATC going.

appreciate you as always, it's obvious you have an extreme amount of knowledge and generously offer help.
cncsnw
Posts: 2699
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: How to wire vfd spindle forward and reverse?

Post by cncsnw »

For an Oak ATC program that supports bipolar analog spindle speed control, see http://www.cncsnw.com/OakUnifiedPLCHowTo.htm
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