Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

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AshG
Posts: 34
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Re: Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

Post by AshG »

Thanks Marty. It's been a lot of work, but I got to a point where I just decided I may as well make it good as new. Hopefully it will run and last for a very long time. I can't wait to get the centroid setup on it, so it's the same as my other machine with acorn. the Bridgeport control was ok but it was old and clunky, it was a pain with it being dos too, yeah dos is easy but it just doesn't interact well by today's standards. I want to be able to have the machine on the network, monitor remotely and all the fancy stuff 🤣🤣
AshG
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:35 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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DC3IOB: No
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Re: Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

Post by AshG »

So today i got a bit more of a chance to work on the machine. i started laying out parts to see where i want everything to go. unfortunately the wiring for most of the sensors/controls come in through the bulkhead on the right. then the rest come from the top left of the cabinet, there isn't really much extra length on the cables so that really limits where i can place the oak and the plcadd1616 board they kinda have to go where they are which doesnt leave a bunch of space for terminal blocks or relays without extending a few cables.
initially i was thinking this layout
initially i was thinking this layout
but i wasn't sure if i wanted the pc in the main control cabinet or the back of the console.
but i wasn't sure if i wanted the pc in the main control cabinet or the back of the console.
i think it may be better in the console and give me more space in the control cabinet.
i think it may be better in the console and give me more space in the control cabinet.
its narrow enough to fit and it would be ideal for power button placement
its narrow enough to fit and it would be ideal for power button placement
this is what im thinking if i put the pc in the console
this is what im thinking if i put the pc in the console
so at the top red and blue lines would be relays and terminal blocks for the i/O

oak and plcadd1616 below

all the drives at the bottom (left space for the 5th axis dream :lol: )

line reactor for the servo drives under the vfd (dmm say one per drive but im gonna roll the dice and just use one big one and see if i get away with it unless anyone has any horror stories about why i shouldn't do that)

the line filter for the servo drive logic (bottom left), again DMM says one per drive but i'm gonna roll the dice and try with a 10amp single unit and just parallel wire from there hopefully its ok it seemed to be fine on martys fadal conversion

out of the frame im planning to add a 75amp line filter on the main input at the top right hand side of the cabinet, i have a solar system that communicates via the ac wires to the solar controller it might get upset if i dump a bunch of noise onto the ac line or vice versa.

finally im going to put brake resistors on all the servo drives, technically only the z should need it but i have them so may as well use them, i will put them on the lower right side panel.
martyscncgarage
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

Post by martyscncgarage »

Can you use some small din rail mounted terminal blocks mounted to the side of the cabinet to extend the wires to PLC1616ADD and Oak perhaps or are you going to extend wires with solder and heat shrink?
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
cncsnw
Posts: 3763
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

Post by cncsnw »

martyscncgarage wrote:Can you use some small din rail mounted terminal blocks mounted to the side of the cabinet to extend the wires to PLC1616ADD and Oak
That is what I typically end up doing on Torq-Cut retrofits.
Attachments
PB100020.JPG
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

Post by martyscncgarage »

cncsnw wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:07 am
martyscncgarage wrote:Can you use some small din rail mounted terminal blocks mounted to the side of the cabinet to extend the wires to PLC1616ADD and Oak
That is what I typically end up doing on Torq-Cut retrofits.
Yep, and you are the one that inspired me with your retrofit Marc. That's why I suggested it to Ash. Now owner of my TC22
Your work is top notch and clean.
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
AshG
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:35 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Contact:

Re: Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

Post by AshG »

i think i can get the wires to reach the oak and the 1616, if i undo the bulkhead glands and pull a bit more cable through, there seems to be some extra on the solenoid side, worst case scenario i my have to only extend one or two wires, id like to have as few joins as possible to reduce points of failure. i was planning to put my big 75Amp line filter where you previously mounted the terminal strip, thanks for that picture it is much clearer than the couple of pics of the whole cabinet i got from Marty. whats the model, source of those terminal strips your using i like the dual joiners in the middle that makes it a lot cleaner. also im going to have to add a higher amp rating circuit breaker and an additional contractor for the servos, the tc22 dc servos had no contractor, just a 25amp circuit breaker.

Marc i have the info you sent over to Marty from way back when i bought the machine off him, I'm working off your tc-4 diagram (k103038 rev1). the only difference i can really see is the tool changer is 240v on the tc22. i see you ran the tool changer on the tc4 from ice cube relays, cr5,6,7,8,9 connected to out,17,18,19,20,21. from that i have a question. i also have a diagram (K101316 rev1) from a tc22 MPU11 retrofit you did and you wired the tool changer direct to the 1616 relays with no ice cubes, i assume that was possible as the tc22 changer is 240v and the current is lower, im wondering if i should do it that way for a cleaner install and wire the tool changer direct to the 1616 relays on out17,18,19,20,21?

looking at the manual for the plcadd1616 (im making the assumption its the same board for the oak and MPU11) https://www.centroidcnc.com/downloads/C ... DD1616.pdf

in the 1616 manual it says the relay current rating is 10amp at 120v or 5amp at 30v im not sure how much i trust this info though looking at the pcb you can clearly see the relays are all TE Pch-105d2h rated at 5amp NO 3amp NC for 277vac same amp rating for up to 30vdc. I'm wondering if centroid updated the design of the PLCADD1616 and didn't update the manual on their manuals web page to reflect the change (it appears all the relays on the board are NO/NC Pch-105d2h type its just a pcb design limitation that only allows two of them to be NO/NC/COM, if you was in a pinch and needed to, you could solder an extra NC terminal off a relay pin on any of the other 14 if you needed an extra NC. anyway i might open a separate thread about the 1616 manual not matching the documentation.
cncsnw
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Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

Post by cncsnw »

See my reply in your other thread. K101316 was an earlier project. I have since thought better of powering motors of any size larger than a Bijur lube pump through the soldered-in relays.

The DIN terminals in the picture above are DN-T12-A from Automation Direct, with their DN-24J2Y plug-in jumpers.
AshG
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:35 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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Oak CNC controller: Yes
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DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Contact:

Re: Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

Post by AshG »

Thanks Marc your response is EXACTLY why i asked the question, i was wondering if your thinking had evolved on the topic since that tc22( k101316) or if you just decided that the board relays on the 240v tool changer could take the abuse. I looked at the relays published ratings, then looked at the tool changer loaded up with a full 21 tools and thought that's a pretty beefy inductive load to be throwing at that little tiny relay :D then i looked at the 1616 manual and thought hmm now I'm more confused as there was no mention of a 240v rating or the nc rating :D .

your tc4 diagram seems very logical and well laid out to me, I'm going to follow it as closely as i can.

do you just use the automation direct single pole branded relays? are they reliable? i haven't used their house brand components before. i assume 1N4004's will work fine for snubbers on them I have a box of Schneider 3PDT 15a relays i could use but it might be a tight fit as the din sockets pretty wide as they have the screw ears too.

with regard to locking out the tool change eject button and tool changer movements it looks like its was previously done via some of the relay terminals on the old Bridgeport 120v ice cubes, am i safe to assume that function is can be taken over by the plc logic on the new control, i haven't dug that deep into the code yet, I'm making a big assumption based on spindle off lamp being assigned to out22 on the 1616 and there being a spindle zero speed on inp14 that it can be handled with code rather than a relay lockout of the button etc.
cncsnw
Posts: 3763
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

Post by cncsnw »

I have used a lot of the 780-series relays and sockets from Automation Direct, and cannot recall any failures.

With the 782-2C-xxx relays you can use their plug-in suppressors (e.g. AD-BSMD-250), but unfortunately there is no equivalent for the single-pole relays and sockets (781-1C-xxx). So yes, 1N4004 diodes should serve just fine.

Yes, I just use PLC logic, based on the spindle-run command and also on the zero-speed signal from the spindle drive, to inhibit tool release while the spindle is turning.
cncsnw
Posts: 3763
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Bridgeport Torqcut 22 Rebuild and Oak Retrofit

Post by cncsnw »

I like your proposed "PC in console" cabinet layout.

Better to have the line reactor and EMI filter down next to the drives they serve, and important to have plenty of DIN rail space up near the I/O boards and the arriving I/O cables.
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