OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

All things related to Centroid Oak, Allin1DC, MPU11 and Legacy products

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cncsnw
Posts: 2041
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by cncsnw »

You will have to run all three legs of 3-phase power through your emergency stop contactor.

You will have to live with the fact that drive logic power will be lost whenever a fault or emergency stop occurs. If you cannot afford any position loss, then you will need to re-home the machine (re-run cncm.hom) whenever there has been an emergency stop or fault.

You do not have to replicate the self-latching line contactor coil circuit from the Mitsubishi manual. Just use the usual OUT1 / E-stop button circuit as shown on the Centroid schematic, and wire the drives' ALM outputs to the Oak axis headers. If a drive faults while enabled, typical PLC logic will trigger a fault, which will turn off OUT1 and cause the emergency stop contactor to open.

I am fairly sure that the encoder differential error that results from powering off the drive logic will not cause an immediate fault when you release emergency stop and power them back up, but you will just have to try it and find out.
cncsnw
Posts: 2041
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by cncsnw »

martyscncgarage wrote:All the drives I have worked with so far, keep the logic power up. This in turn keeps the encoder powered up so Oak knows the position even during an stop.
That is most common, and obviously much better. But drives with only one power supply are out there. Some early Yaskawa Sigma I drives (SGDA-) are like this too.
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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CNC12: Yes
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CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by martyscncgarage »

cncsnw wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:59 am
martyscncgarage wrote:All the drives I have worked with so far, keep the logic power up. This in turn keeps the encoder powered up so Oak knows the position even during an stop.
That is most common, and obviously much better. But drives with only one power supply are out there. Some early Yaskawa Sigma I drives (SGDA-) are like this too.
Thanks Marc,
If the logic power is not kept up on the drives of an Oak system, I would assume the user would have to rehome the machine after a fault or Estop condition?
Further, on control Power up, since Oak does not see any feedback signals from the drives, because they are powered down, until Oak is reset, is there a time once the Estop is cycled to close the Estop contactor that Oak will wait for the drives to come on line and communicate before "drive" faulting?

Trying to understand here how these drives and OAK are integrated.
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
JasonPORC
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:30 am
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Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by JasonPORC »

cncsnw wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:57 am You will have to run all three legs of 3-phase power through your emergency stop contactor.

You will have to live with the fact that drive logic power will be lost whenever a fault or emergency stop occurs. If you cannot afford any position loss, then you will need to re-home the machine (re-run cncm.hom) whenever there has been an emergency stop or fault.

You do not have to replicate the self-latching line contactor coil circuit from the Mitsubishi manual. Just use the usual OUT1 / E-stop button circuit as shown on the Centroid schematic, and wire the drives' ALM outputs to the Oak axis headers. If a drive faults while enabled, typical PLC logic will trigger a fault, which will turn off OUT1 and cause the emergency stop contactor to open.

I am fairly sure that the encoder differential error that results from powering off the drive logic will not cause an immediate fault when you release emergency stop and power them back up, but you will just have to try it and find out.
Thanks a ton Marc. After reading a few other posts you responded to, I had a sneaking suspicion this would be the solution. My current set up with WINCNC just faults out The drives if I slam the big E. I’ll take note of the error message I get on screen As well is what the drive display tells me. I currently do not need to rehome the machine if I hit Estop. That perhaps answers the questing if I am worried loosing positioning. Ha ha. Perhaps I’m not as precise as I thought. Lol.

Thanks again for the insight. I’ll proceed with my
Bench work.
cncsnw
Posts: 2041
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by cncsnw »

The WinCNC E-Stop circuit might be opening the "EM2" input to the drives, and not interrupting power.

You could do that with Oak, too, if you feel that stopping the drives with the EM2 input is sufficiently reliable.

It is likely that some minor PLC programming would be needed to reset the drives' fault conditions after you have released emergency stop and re-closed the EM2 inputs.
JasonPORC
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:30 am
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Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by JasonPORC »

You read my mind. I looked inside my current control cabinet and that’s what it’s doing. All four drives are hooked to a small 5vdc relay with 4 small contacts. When the Estop is pressed it opens the coil and stops the drives!

Woo hoo!! I can’t believe I actually was close. Happy Friday!

Thanks Marc!
JasonPORC
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:30 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
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Oak CNC controller: Yes
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DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by JasonPORC »

Good Day All!

PROBLEM #2

For the life of me, I cannot get Output 1 to actually close. My meter reads 24VDC at common and 0VDC Estop connection header (H11). Screenshot below is 1st with eStop closed. 2nd is with eStop tripped. Input 11 is working correctly. My meter reads 0VDC weather the output it open or closed
E-Stop closed.JPG
E-Stop tripped.JPG
I have a sneaking suspension that it's got something to do with the thread found here: (Screen grab for quick reference)

viewtopic.php?f=64&t=5105&p=43232&hilit=forced#p43232
Drive Faults.JPG
The problem is, I really don't know HOW to fix these faults at this point. Should I go in and force all the red "faults" to go away? Or, should I be learning about the PLC coding and adjust it there?

A few additional notes before I attach the full report.
1. I've isolated the Estop relay, all connections, and tried 3 power supplies. Same problem.
2. I've checked continuity on several other outputs, and they all function correctly.
3. I've uninstalled and re-installed CNC12 multiple times.
4. I have a wireless MPG and Pro license, and have tried setting up the software and bench testing with and without MPG. At this point, the only way I can clear all faults (mostly encoder related) is to disable the MPG.

I'd love some advice, so I can continue down my bench testing route! Thanks to all. Cheers. Jason
Attachments
report_0008DC111213-0317211111_2021-04-18_17-37-24.zip
(479.99 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by martyscncgarage »

Not clear on what you are saying.
Your screen shots of the diagnostic screen clear show Output 1 (NoFaultOut) cycled on and off. Send row of LEDs far left. (If you move the box around LED 1 on the second row, and then read the legend, middle of the screen under the last Row of LEDs it will tell you what the output OR input is assigned to)
My "guess" is you don't have your estop circuit wired quite right?
Did you follow the Oak Schematic?

The Installation Manual walks you through everything. Are you still at basic benchtest (Just Oak and the PC) or have you now wired the drives?
Pictures/Video would be helpful.
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
JasonPORC
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:30 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by JasonPORC »

To clarify. I don’t have voltage or continuity between these two contact points when output 1 is green/closed, therefore when eventually it IS hooked up to the coil of the Estop, the coil will not energize.
D4F47D69-C4A2-4BB2-B409-277A4752936F.jpeg

I belief the problem is related to a fault listed in the “memory” section of the IO (alt-I) screen.

And for the record Marty. While the install guide is quite helpful, there are several errors and outdated pieces of information in it. I’m making notes as I go so I can share them with others down the road.
martyscncgarage
Posts: 8260
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: OAK 4x8 Router Build with ATC

Post by martyscncgarage »

Take the cover off Oak with the power off. Check the fuse, to see if you somehow blew it.
You will see the fuses right away when the cover is off.

They are simple dry contact relay's with a fuse in series....
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
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