Stepper / Servo Facts and Fallacies

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Gary Campbell
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Stepper / Servo Facts and Fallacies

Post by Gary Campbell »

Here is a bit of info that may help a number of guys building their own systems select proper motors for the intended purpose. There has been volumes published on this subject, but few DIY guys seem to take the time to learn the facts, instead opting to use internet "urban legend" and assuming they are correct.

How much power do I have or need?
This is a tough question that can only be answered by the user. That said the vast majority of OEM models use a NEMA34 stepper with a holding torque between 500 and 650 ozin holding torque. Since this is most likely the most popular used NEMA34 motor, lets get it into understandable numbers. I will use a 600 ozin typical motor as a generic reference.

The 600 ozin number is holding torque. That means when stopped. What is not often mentioned is that the number is measured at full steps. If, and we all do, we choose to use microstepping that holding torque is reduced. More levels of microstepping, more torque reduction. Here are the numbers:
Microstep Chart.JPG
As you can see once 1/8th microstepping has been selected the resulting holding torque is reduced to 20% of full step numbers. Sound bad? It gets worse. Those are holding (stopped) torque, once the motor moves that torque is reduced to 70% of holding. 70% of 20% is 14%. 14% of 600 is 84. Read this as "when cutting there is 84 ozin of torque available, which decreases as rotational speed increases. The end result is if you wish to push a normal 2000 rpm stepper past 1000 rpm it may only have 3-5% of its advertised holding torque. Power is speed times torque, so power to maintain that higher speed is not reduced as greatly as torque falls off, but will still reduce.

One other scenario: stepper drives that use 1/10th microstepping are very popular. I recommend against them for router use. Reason is that 1/10th microstepping reduces available torque to 20% vs 70% while in motion for most of the other settings. Tenth does a great job to provide very quiet, very smooth motion, especially with a consistent load. Medical applications come to mind here. Smooth quiet motion, vs the growly motion we may accept in a stepper driven small router table. Our usage has ever changing, sometime unpredictable loads, I prefer to have as much power available as possible to keep my from losing steps.
Tenth Microstepping.JPG

So, we have 84 ozin of torque, what does this mean in "real world" numbers? Lets convert to "push/pull" at the bit. Using 5:1 gear or belt reduction is a middle of the road solution. A rack and pinion setup with a 24T (1.2" Pdia) pinion is common also. Our cals would yield: 84 x 5 or 420ozin at the reduction shaft. dividing by the radius of the pinion 420 / .6 yields 700 oz of linear torque (less friction and other resistances) or 43.75 pounds of linear force at the bit. or ~12.5 # if using 1/10. Some of my previous testing (with UPS and fish scales) shows that a 1/4" bit, 1/4" deep, at 250ipm & 15K rpm (.008" chipload) places around 50 pounds of lateral force on the blank. As you can see, with the above mentioned combo, chipload must be reduced to ensure no steps are lost.


Or, higher torque motors could be used. Upgrading to 900 or 1200 ozin NEMA34 motors will allow cutting in the higher chipload ranges. FYI... adding higher torque motors to the same gear ratio will REDUCE not INCREASE top speed. You will be able to cut at a higher chipload maybe even faster than before without loss of steps, but overall max speed will be reduced a bit.

What about higher torque with closed loop motors and drives?
600 ozin is 600 ozin. For the most part other than the fact that a closed loop stepper system will alarm and stop the machine if a preset threshold has been exceeded, there is little or no torque advantage over an open loop motor with the same torque rating. Some drives claim that once a "full step" is lost they will exert 100% torque to regain position. True, but in most cases where steps are lost, 100% of torque was being used and there is no "extra" to exert.

That said, stopping the machine and allowing the operator to adjust cutting parameters to stay within available torque limits and thereby NOT losing steps and destroying an expensive material blank can be everything. Even tho I build economical systems for users that have open loop steppers, I only use closed loop steppers or servos in my complete systems.

What about servos?
First off there are 2 types. Hybrid and Full closed loop. The hybrid versions have an alarm that performs similar to those on closed loop steppers. This is the type we can use with Acorn. Full closed loop servos use encoder feedback right to the controller allowing the controller to use additional torque to regain position. This usually happens so fast that it cannot be noticed.

Teknic ClearPath servos are common here. How do they compare to a stepper?
Many users will assume they have 600 ozin steppers so they want to buy much more powerful servos. Who wouldnt? The problem is they are cutting with 84 ozin, not 600. Lets take the smallest, single stack NEMA34 ClearPath, the 3411 frame. Continuous torque between 57 and 150ozin, peak torque between 192 and 638ozin. I will use the "S" configuration as it most closely resembles the rpm range of a stepper, so gear reduction would not have to be changed. 150ozin of continuous torque up to 2000 rpm. This will virtually double the "normal circumstances" torque (78 pounds linear) up to 1100 in/min AND provide up to ~250 pounds for brief time periods, if needed. This is close to 6 time what the stepper had up to 375 in/min, even more if under 100 ipm.

This torque stays consistent no matter how the resolution (steps per rev) is set. Imagine that, 6 times the torque at 4 times the resolution (1600 vs. 6400)

Other ClearPath configurations (P & D) will perform similarly if proper gear reduction is used.
Microstepping WP.pdf
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gerald martin
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Re: Stepper / Servo Facts and Fallacies

Post by gerald martin »

Excellent exposition. For the end user, the temptation is always to go larger. Sometimes, less is more. Gary recommended Clearpath 3411's for my ShopBot conversion. I was fascinated with more power and wanted 3421's. Until I studied the torque comparison - While the 3421 starts out much higher, for the mid range RPM's they are nearly identical, and at higher speeds the smaller 3411 actually holds up better. I took Gary's first recommendation of the 3411's with 5 to 1 gear reduction and haven't done any cutting that came remotely close to pushing the limits...In fact, probably lightweight machine structure/flex would be the primary limitation now.

Gerald
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Gary Campbell
Posts: 2190
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:32 pm
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AcornSix CNC Controller: Yes
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CNC Control System Serial Number: Acorn 238
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Re: Stepper / Servo Facts and Fallacies

Post by Gary Campbell »

Gerald has mentioned an often overlooked and very important factor; frame strength. His statement:
..In fact, probably lightweight machine structure/flex would be the primary limitation now.
This is much more important than most DIY guys realize. Frame rigidity, or the ability to withstand the forces generated by cutting. Above I mention one of my test methods, i.e., 1/4" bit, 1/4" depth, 250 ipm, 15K rpm as close to 50# of lateral force. What is impossible to learn without testing is: How much will a given frames components flex at a given chipload? Few users know the answer. Most OEMs do and post recommended feeds, speeds and depth to match their frames. The machines they sell are divided in to price classes that reflect the cost of components included in that class. Higher priced components for the most part yield less deflection.

As it turns out there is a correlation between price and recommended chipload. My rule of thumb, that has exceptions by the way, is around .001" of chipload per $1k of price class. In other words, you can expect to cut in the .0025" chipload range in the $2500 class, .005" in the $5k class, etc. To clarify I am saying that you can expect to cut at those chipload levels with a minimum (<.005") of deflection. Increase the chipload, increase the chipload. Too many small CNC users, both those with branded and DIY machines worry about getting a proper chipload for their bits, when they should be working to keep that chipload within the abilities of their machines frame and power level.

Excessive chipload attempts on flexible machines snap more bits than most any other scenario. With a high chipload a flexible frame allows the bit to "dig in" more, increasing the load, sometimes slowing the router/spindle, which increases load even more, snapping the bit. This process is exacerbated by insufficient hold down. Here is an example of 120ipm cutting, with 1/4 second acceleration, .100" depth with an 1/8" bit. The hold down and frame allow this seemingly instantaneous motion: (look at 4 minutes in)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqTpEXHOWPw

https://youtu.be/xqTpEXHOWPw

And for those on the quest of 10 to 15 thousandths of chipload, here is a bolted down material blank being cut at seven:

After cut measurements showed .0025" undersize.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDTE_UfjorE

https://youtu.be/yDTE_UfjorE
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