Stepping through troubleshooting & configuring Acorn for a router with user Arturo

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martyscncgarage
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Re: Axis motor rotation on first RESET HOME (STEPPING THROUGH THE SETUP PROCESS)

Post by martyscncgarage »

Arturo Martinez wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:42 pm Hi Marty,

I made the changes you requested and posted an album with the Axis Configuration new values:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GDhJBC7gaBnSoPps5

The second entry on the album is a video of running the G-Code.

I think all axes are running good now.

I'm ready for the next task.

Thanks,
Arturo
Great! To fine tune things you will need a dial indicator. We can move forward now.

What are the travels of each axis? Let's rough them in.
Jog each axis to the end of their travels, put a tape measure to each axis and tell me (in inches, I'm metrically challenged. ;) )

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
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martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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Re: Axis motor rotation on first RESET HOME (STEPPING THROUGH THE SETUP PROCESS)

Post by martyscncgarage »

martyscncgarage wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:04 pm
Arturo Martinez wrote: Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:42 pm Hi Marty,

I made the changes you requested and posted an album with the Axis Configuration new values:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/GDhJBC7gaBnSoPps5

The second entry on the album is a video of running the G-Code.

I think all axes are running good now.

I'm ready for the next task.

Thanks,
Arturo
Great! To fine tune things you will need a dial indicator or a dial test indicator and a gauge block, but we can move forward now.

What are the travels of each axis? Let's rough them in.
Jog each axis to the end of their travels, put a tape measure to each axis and tell me (in inches, I'm metrically challenged. ;) )

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Arturo Martinez
Posts: 52
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Re: Axis motor rotation on first RESET HOME (STEPPING THROUGH THE SETUP PROCESS)

Post by Arturo Martinez »

Hi Marty,

The X axis runs 41”

The Y axis runs 47 ½”

The Z axis runs 9 ½”

NOTES:

1. On the Z axis, without anything interrupting its path it runs 9 ½”. However, I designed the Z axis to run 9” to accommodate a ½” waste board AND also to be able to work on deep pieces and not-too-deep pieces.
Therefore, I made a sub-base of 4” that I would place (when working on not-too-deep pieces) on top of the main table plus the ½” waste board for a total maximum travel of 9 ½” – 4” – ½” = 5”.

I am assuming that you want to enter the maximum axes travel on the Wizard so how would you suggest me to handle these scenarios?

Since this limit might be a system value, could programmatically change this value as needed at the beginning of every job?

Or manually change the limit value on the wizard accordingly before running a job?

2. I notices also that the humming noise from the motors (while moving) is louder since we changed to 4000 steps/revolution. It’s been a while since I don’t lubricate to the linear blocks nor the lead screws so it could be that but I am thinking also that the steps/revolution change has more to do with this.
Do you have any idea why is this? And if so, please suggest a possible fix.

And since we are talking about motor steps/revolution, could you please direct me to a place where I can get familiar with this concept?

3. Is there a way to have NO program loaded on the system when it is started?

This would prevent running a program by accident.

If that is not possible, I think I may have to write a G-Code program that (if called by accident) would start, send a message and then terminate without doing anything else.

For this to work all the times, this “safety” program would need to be loaded by default when the system is started up.

Any thoughts on this?

And 4. I was told that in order to get a notice that someone responded to postings I made (like this one) I needed to be "subscribed" to it. Then I asked where I would subscribe but I did not get a response. Could you direct me to the person that can tell me how to set that up?

As always, thank you,

Arturo
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
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Re: Axis motor rotation on first RESET HOME (STEPPING THROUGH THE SETUP PROCESS)

Post by martyscncgarage »

Arturo Martinez wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:12 pm Hi Marty,

The X axis runs 41”

The Y axis runs 47 ½”

The Z axis runs 9 ½”

NOTES:

1. On the Z axis, without anything interrupting its path it runs 9 ½”. However, I designed the Z axis to run 9” to accommodate a ½” waste board AND also to be able to work on deep pieces and not-too-deep pieces.
Therefore, I made a sub-base of 4” that I would place (when working on not-too-deep pieces) on top of the main table plus the ½” waste board for a total maximum travel of 9 ½” – 4” – ½” = 5”. We will use 5" for the soft limit for this axis. You can adjust it

I am assuming that you want to enter the maximum axes travel on the Wizard so how would you suggest me to handle these scenarios?
I'm going to explain this below
Since this limit might be a system value, could programmatically change this value as needed at the beginning of every job?
You could, but you shouldn't. The softlimit values tell the control to STOP at these values. That's why you don't need to have limit switches at the end of the travel. All you could do is shorten them up, but then you LOSE travel.

Or manually change the limit value on the wizard accordingly before running a job? NO this is a safety feature, not really to be changed once set

2. I notices also that the humming noise from the motors (while moving) is louder since we changed to 4000 steps/revolution. It’s been a while since I don’t lubricate to the linear blocks nor the lead screws so it could be that but I am thinking also that the steps/revolution change has more to do with this.
Do you have any idea why is this? And if so, please suggest a possible fix. Can't answer this. Check with whomever you bought them from.

And since we are talking about motor steps/revolution, could you please direct me to a place where I can get familiar with this concept?
You set the encoder resolution to 4000. It takes 4000 pulses from the control to turn the motor one revolution. Simple.

3. Is there a way to have NO program loaded on the system when it is started?
Centroid is aware of this request and is working to incorporate it into a future software revision. Just use care and READ what the screen is telling you. Have your Estop where you can reach it if needed. You can always STOP the program.
This would prevent running a program by accident.

If that is not possible, I think I may have to write a G-Code program that (if called by accident) would start, send a message and then terminate without doing anything else.

For this to work all the times, this “safety” program would need to be loaded by default when the system is started up.

Any thoughts on this?
By default, the CNC software will load the last job run. So no, you can't default anything at this time.
And 4. I was told that in order to get a notice that someone responded to postings I made (like this one) I needed to be "subscribed" to it. Then I asked where I would subscribe but I did not get a response. Could you direct me to the person that can tell me how to set that up?
I will explain in another post, but you check the "Notify me when a reply is posted box when you reply or create a new post

As always, thank you,

Arturo
OK, we will now set your soft limits.
It is IMPORTANT that the axis travel is pretty accurate. That is, if you command a one inch move, the axis MOVES ONE INCH.

Go into the Wizard, Axis Configuration tab. (Use picture as a reference) Change:
1. Homing Type, change it to HOME TO SWITCH this tells the control to seek the home/limit switch to home the machine.
2. Homing Direction, change X to -(M91) this tells the control to move X in the NEGATIVE direction to find the switch.
3. Homing Direction Y and Z should both be +(M92) this tells the control to move Y and Z in the POSITIVE direction to find the switch.
4. Homing Sequence. Leave this alone. The control will home the axis with 1 first, 2 second, 3 last. Z is always first, Y and X usuall follow.
5. Travel Limit(+), put a value of 41 in the box under the Axis 1 (X) column. This tells the control after homing, X can only move 41" and the stops it from moving further. If you want to play it safe, set it to 30 to try it and measure it. Leave 0's in Y, Y slave and Z
6. Travel Limit(-), put a value of -47 in the Axis 2 and Axis 4 column. This tells the control, after homing Y and Y slave, the axis can only move in the -negative direction 47 inches. You can reduce both to 30 if you would like to test. THE MINUS SIGN must be placed in front of the value as shown.
7. Travel Limit(-), put a value of -5 in the Axis 3 column. This tells the control, after homing Z, the axis can only move in the -negative direction 5 inches. THE MINUS SIGN must be placed in front of the value as shown.

Write the settings to the control.
Shut down the machine and PC
Restart the PC.
You will have dashes in the DROs
Read the screen, it says Machine Home not Set, press Cycle start to continue.
At this point press cycle start, cover the Estop button with your hand if you wish.
What should happen is Z should go up, hit the switch and back off
Then Y should move to the back of the machine, hit the switch and back off
Then X should move to the left of machine, hit the switch and back off.

THEN the DRO's should set. NOTE: Since you ran a program, you may well not have ZEROS in the DRO boxes. Press ALT+D to toggle the Machine Home DRO. THEY WILL BE ZERO. You can press ALT+D to toggle back to the part DRO display.

IF the machine homed successfully, you can test the soft limits.
1. Using the Virtual Control Panel, jog the Z down continuously by pressing the -Z button. It should stop at -5 inches from Machine Zero
2. Using the Virtual Control Panel, jog the Y axis continuously in the NEGATIVE direction (Toward the front of the machine) by pressing the -Y button on. The machine should stop where ever you set the value (30 or 47 inches from Machine Zero
3. Using the Virtual Control Panel, jog the X axis continuously in the POSITIVE direction (Toward the right of the machine) by pressing the +X button. The machine should stop wherever you set the value (30 or 41 inches from Machine Zero)

Let us know how that goes and PLEASE post a new report AND a screen shot of the Wizard's update Axis page.

Marty

NOTE IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE ON THE PAGE Except the 4 rows with arrows in front of them.
Soft Limit Settings.jpg
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
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martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
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Re: Axis motor rotation on first RESET HOME (STEPPING THROUGH THE SETUP PROCESS)

Post by martyscncgarage »

Check the box under the OPTIONS tab when posting a message or replying to one, just before you click SUBMIT
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Arturo Martinez
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Re: Axis motor rotation on first RESET HOME (STEPPING THROUGH THE SETUP PROCESS)

Post by Arturo Martinez »

Hi Marty,
The Travel Limits are set as well as the Homing parameters.

Here is the link to the photo of the Axis Configuration Panel:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/GaT57psFJMoePkut8

And I have attached the latest report.zip

Now, during the process of executing these changes, these issues came up:

1. I had to adjust the Overall Turns Ratio for Y and Y slave because jogging to -47" resulted in actual travel of 46 3/16" So, I applied the method you explained last time and the change was from 1 to 1.0175. I re-check the travel and now it is OK.
2. What is the difference between pressing Cycle Star to home the machine and pressing RESET HOME, or in other words, under what conditions would I press RESET HOME?
3. I'm sorry to ask again about the Steps/Revolution:
These are the elements I noticed when we changed to 4000:
a) The travel movement while jogging became too slow.
b) The humming motor noise became louder
c) The manufacturer's default value is 1600
The questions are?
Why 4000?
Is it because Acorn requires such value?
Is it because that gives a better motor performance?
Is it because the motor would last longer?
What if I change it to... say, 2000 or 3200?
I know you suggested to ask the motor's manufacturer about this, but this is located in China and thus it may take a while to get an answer -if they ever do.

Thank you,
Arturo
Attachments
report_38D2694C67E2-0621181009_2018-09-26_08-16-56.zip
(183.22 KiB) Downloaded 253 times
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Axis motor rotation on first RESET HOME (STEPPING THROUGH THE SETUP PROCESS)

Post by martyscncgarage »

Arturo,
A little short on time tonight.
Did the machine home ok?
IF so go into the Wizard and increase the MAX RATE for X, Y and Y slave to 200 inches per minute.
Bump up the FAST JOG to 200 on all three.

On Z, increase the MAX RATE to 100 and then bump up the FAST JOG to 100. Start with those settings.

Remember, to toggle between FAST and SLOW Jog, click the tortoise and hare button. When the LED is it you are in slow jog.

Test and report back.

Always use cycle start to home the machine the first time on power up. If you need to home the machine afterwards, then use reset home.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Arturo Martinez
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:38 pm
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Location: Ontario, CA

Re: Axis motor rotation on first RESET HOME (STEPPING THROUGH THE SETUP PROCESS)

Post by Arturo Martinez »

Hi Marty,
Thanks for your help, even when your time is short.

Yes, the machine is homing OK.

I made the MAX RATE and FAST JOG changes as requested and they work fine.


Are we getting close to finish the set up?


Thanks again,

Arturo
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Axis motor rotation on first RESET HOME (STEPPING THROUGH THE SETUP PROCESS)

Post by martyscncgarage »

Yes.
At this point if you need faster rapids you can increase the MAX rate a bit more, but you might start working with it a little bit.
You should "fine" tune the axis so they are better than "Tape Measure Close",
You would need at least a dial indicator if not a dial test indicator with a gage block of a known dimension.
This is explained in the All In One DC Manual under 6.9 FINE ADJUSTMENT OF DRO POSITION
http://www.centroidcnc.com/downloads/ce ... manual.pdf

I did a video sometime agon on this
https://youtu.be/1XE4-5xstWQ

Then you can test backlash and see how much you have in your machine.
http://www.centroidcnc.com/usersupport/ ... /tb037.pdf

Be sure to read through the Mill Operator's manual:
http://www.centroidcnc.com/downloads/ce ... manual.pdf

As I previously mentioned, I would not use individual wiring from the Acorn to the stepper drives. I would use a shielded cable.

Good luck with your machine. Take your time and learn to use it.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Arturo Martinez
Posts: 52
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:38 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
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CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Ontario, CA

Re: Axis motor rotation on first RESET HOME (STEPPING THROUGH THE SETUP PROCESS)

Post by Arturo Martinez »

I am studying the Operator's Manual. Since it is based on version 11 it is hard to follow and thus I know I'll have more questions in the future.

I'll post those question here in the forum, so if you see them, I'll appreciate your input.

Thank you very much!

Arturo Martinez
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