Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret on Prolight 3000

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ozarkwoodworker
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Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret on Prolight 3000

Post by ozarkwoodworker »

I couldn't find a lot of information on Axis Driven Turrets on here, and specifically with the issue I'm having.

I have a Prolight CNC Lathe with an Axis Driven Turret. I'm currently just testing out the turret, and I have nothing hooked up to the lathe besides the wires for the stepper motor on the turret and some limit switches. I've attached pictures.

Right now when I try to index the turret with M21 it does move the turret in the correct rotation, but then it reverses to probably lock in place. But it reverses too much, and makes some nice grinding noises. How do I prevent or limit this reversal?

ACORN_Axis_Driven_Turret_Instructions_rev5.pdf
(55.98 KiB) Downloaded 12 times

Also M18 seems to do nothing. I receive no error messages, and the stepper motor on the turret doesn't change any pitches or make a sound. I'm assuming CNC12 would timeout, but I don't know, because I stop it after a few seconds of no movement.

Thanks,
Ray
Attachments
20230427_115011.jpg
20230427_115005.jpg
20230427_115040.jpg
report_E415F6F18225-1124204088_2023-04-27_11-54-18.zip
(730.05 KiB) Downloaded 1 time
Last edited by ozarkwoodworker on Tue May 02, 2023 1:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cnckeith
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Re: Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret

Post by cnckeith »

download v5.0, a whole new Lathe Turret section has been added to the Wizard.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
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ozarkwoodworker
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Re: Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret

Post by ozarkwoodworker »

I completely uninstalled v4.82, and installed v5.0. Some things don't appear to be working correctly for the Axis Driven Turret. The main screen doesn't show the "A" axis degrees like it did before. Also the F6(ATC INT) does not show up on the Config screen.


centroid_acorn_wizard_atc_setup_guide.pdf
(211.12 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

Capture4.PNG



If I just change parameter #848, would that change the amount of time the turret reverses on the Axis Driven Turret setup?



I'm going to try and take the turret apart before I try anything else, because I don't want to damage it. Unfortunately Intelitek really likes to loctite everything, and they don't want to provide any parts diagrams, because they are secret and proprietary. That's literally what they told me on the phone.

Thanks,
Ray
Attachments
report_E415F6F18225-1124204088_2023-04-28_09-45-01.zip
(795.52 KiB) Not downloaded yet
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cnckeith
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Re: Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret

Post by cnckeith »

what do you mean by "uninstalled"
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
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and here viewforum.php?f=61
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Re: Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret

Post by Allin1Chris »

Hello Ozark,

As before, you need to assign axis 4 on the configuration screen as axis A (The ATC menu does not do this for you). The ATC Menu does setup the parameters that you had to previously setup your self.

P848 does not change the axis based turret, to change the amount that it turns on the reverse you will be required to modify the M6 macro. If this worked for you before, then most likely the macro you had was modified as the amount that the turret moved has not changed from the 4.80 ATC beta to V5.00 macro.
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ozarkwoodworker
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Re: Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret

Post by ozarkwoodworker »

cnckeith wrote: Fri Apr 28, 2023 3:59 pm what do you mean by "uninstalled"
I uninstalled the program through Windows settings, and I deleted the cnct and icn_lath folders. Then installed v5.0. Please let me know if there is something more I should do.

Chris, yes, I did forget to reassign axis 4 to axis A, but that didn't fix my other issues.

One issue is there is no F6(ATC Init) on the config screen, which is referenced in the wizard and the new atc setup guide.
centroid_acorn_wizard_atc_setup_guide.pdf
(211.12 KiB) Downloaded 2 times

Capture3.PNG


Also, would it make sense to make P848 be used as the same variable across the different turrets?

This turret has never been set up before. So I don't have a working macro. I can look into editing this. I've also taken the turret apart. Anyone else with one of these turret would appreciate these pictures. It's a pretty simple and basic design that you'll see in almost all these turrets. The set screw that held the pin with the spring was loctited in there. I got the screw out after heating it up, but I couldn't get the pin out, because it's tight and the loctite residue. I ended up just putting a wedge in the arm to hold it down.

Now I can test anything without worry about breaking anything.

Thank you for your input.

Ray
Attachments
report_E415F6F18225-1124204088_2023-05-02_10-20-12.zip
(795.17 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
20230428_104620.jpg
20230428_104602.jpg
20230428_102956.jpg
20230428_102952.jpg
20230428_102944.jpg
cnckeith
Posts: 7166
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Re: Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret on Prolight 3000

Post by cnckeith »

thanks, fyi.. there is no need to run windows uninstaller on cnc12.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
Allin1Chris
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Re: Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret

Post by Allin1Chris »

ozarkwoodworker wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 11:55 am
One issue is there is no F6(ATC Init) on the config screen, which is referenced in the wizard and the new atc setup guide.
This is for the Mill ATC's like carousel or Rackmount, the ATC Initalization takes form in lathe by calling M18 (in the axis turret's case, this will prompt the user to input the Tool # the turret is currently sitting at). Its intended to run when you home the lathe.

The Guide needs some updates for the turrets (Working on it) (The axis based turret has some additional steps).

1. Setup the Axis based turret in the wizard, including making an Axis with the Label "A" (with the updated macros, it should work on any axis, but recommended is 4th axis).

2. After writing these settings and restart, command an M18 in MDI, should prompt for turret Tool #, input the number. This initializes the turret and lets CNC12 know where the turret currently sits.

3. Try commanding a Tttnn (tt = tool number, nn = offset) in MDI, the turret should spin to the correct tool. By default the macro will run about half way past the tool, then reverse about half way "Behind" the tool to lock. If this is too much for your turret modify the following lines in the cnctch.mac file found in C:\cnct directory. (Ensure to go into the wizard in ATC page and click "Custom Tool Change Macro in use").

In the "Axis Driven Turret Section" of the macro will find the following 2 lines.

Code: Select all

G53 A[#102 + 0.5]
G53 A[#102 - 0.5]
you can adjust the 0.5 in both to adjust how much "Past" the tool the turret will move and how far "behind" the turret needs to move to lock. If you want it to just go "straight" to the position without the forward/back, edit the line so it simply says

Code: Select all

G53 A[#102]
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ozarkwoodworker
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Re: Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret on Prolight 3000

Post by ozarkwoodworker »

Thanks for the information! That's what I needed to know about the cnctch.mac. You can pretty much copy and paste that into the manual. It would be nice to have some parameters to use as variables like with the DC motor controlled turrets. I understand this is all new. This is my 5th acorn machine. First with a turret. Thank you to everyone that has made what we have possible!

If I understood the instructions correctly, you have to ensure that the turns/rev is correctly set so that 1 = 1 turret position. So 3 = 3 turret positions, and 0.5 = half a turret position.

ACORN_Axis_Driven_Turret_Instructions_rev5.pdf
(55.98 KiB) Downloaded 2 times


My question is, why would you want to move half a turret position in the opposite direction at the end? Leaving the default values to move from turret position 1 to 2:

Code: Select all

G53 A[#102 + 0.5]
G53 A[#102 - 0.5]
You actually end up at "A = 1.500", and not at "2". It would make sense if these values were incremental instead of absolute. The most I can do is a -0.001 or -0.002. What machine can handle -0.5 of a turret position after passing the desired position? Or am I not understanding something?

M18 seems to work perfectly. When the M21 macro hits the maximum tool number, it doesn't index to tool 1. It provides an error message. I have 8 tools as you can see by the DRO readout.

Capture.PNG


Another issue is when you use the F7ATC on the F1Setup page to change tools, it works perfectly, except I don't know what to make of the DRO readout for the "A". The number just keeps going up.

Capture3.PNG


I can't seem to figure out what "type" of input to use on the index/home switch on the turret. I've tried several different ones, but I can't seem to get the turret to home itself.

Capture4.PNG
Capture1.PNG


Thank you for your help,
Ray
Attachments
Capture2.PNG
report_E415F6F18225-1124204088_2023-05-02_15-21-48.zip
(816.03 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
Allin1Chris
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Re: Axis Driven Lathe Turret Parameters to Limit or Stop Reversal of Turret on Prolight 3000

Post by Allin1Chris »

ozarkwoodworker wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 4:33 pm My question is, why would you want to move half a turret position in the opposite direction at the end? Leaving the default values to move from turret position 1 to 2:
Some turrets require to reverse to lock the turret in place. Even though perhaps not the best solution, but the idea was that the motor would reverse enough to lock and any remaining travel, the motor will "burn" through the rest of its movement. Can adjust the values to minimize this ofcourse. Some turrets and as far as i can tell most if not all bi-directional turrets usually just need to rotate too the tool then usually a separate output to clamp/lock the turret. The Bi-directional / separate locking mechanism is currently not implemented.
ozarkwoodworker wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 4:33 pm
Another issue is when you use the F7ATC on the F1Setup page to change tools, it works perfectly, except I don't know what to make of the DRO readout for the "A". The number just keeps going up.
Yes the Turret rotates in the same direction, the DRO will continue to climb as this is still the "Position" of the motor, not really the Tool position. Look at the Tnnnn beside the DRO for current Tool location. If the DRO bothers you, can modify parameter 94 and add a "512" to the parameter to hide it from the DRO.
ozarkwoodworker wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 4:33 pm I can't seem to figure out what "type" of input to use on the index/home switch on the turret. I've tried several different ones, but I can't seem to get the turret to home itself.
Currently the way M18 works is the turret "homes" where ever its at. If you would like to add a switch and have the turret rotate to said switch. (I assume it will end up on Tool 1?)

The easiest way to do this is to wire the sensor to an input (no need to necessarily label it).
Then can use an M105 or M106 command with it looking for the input. Try this in the M18 Macro, Under the Axis Driven Turret Section,

Code: Select all

IF #20101 == 65 THEN #102 = #20601
IF #20102 == 65 THEN #102 = #20602
IF #20103 == 65 THEN #102 = #20603
IF #20104 == 65 THEN #102 = #20604
IF #20105 == 65 THEN #102 = #20605
IF #20206 == 65 THEN #102 = #20606
IF #20107 == 65 THEN #102 = #20607
IF #20108 == 65 THEN #102 = #20608

;Move A axis to Switch
M105 /A P50001 ;This is input 1, change the 50001 to your input

;Home Axis so DRO reads "1"
M26 /A L[#102]

IF #50001                        	;Prevent lookahead from parsing past here
G10 P1976 R1  					; Set parameter 976 to tool number
ozarkwoodworker wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 4:33 pm When the M21 macro hits the maximum tool number, it doesn't index to tool 1. It provides an error message.
Does appear this macro is setup wrong, attached is an updated M21 that should rectify that issue. Will include it in next software versions. Thank you for pointing it out!
Attachments
mfunc21.mac
Fixed Axis Driven Turret Roll Over
(886 Bytes) Downloaded 4 times
When requesting support READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043

Please ALWAYS post a FRESH report. To make a report: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecvg0VJp1oQ.

(We pride ourselves on providing timely solid technical support but, without good information we may not be able to help and/or reply until such information is posted.)

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