Lathe chuck open / close using M10 & M11?

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Muzzer
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Lathe chuck open / close using M10 & M11?

Post by Muzzer »

I've connected up my Kitagawa hydraulic chuck to 2 of the outputs of the Acorn and the relays toggle when I use VCP. I can also issue M10 and M11 via MDI. However, no matter what I do, the relays only stay energised for 3 seconds. That would be fine for a machine where the chuck / collet closer only needed to be tightened or loosened but it wouldn't end well for my machine, as it would result in the work coming loose after 3 seconds.

Here's mfunc10:
;------------------------------------------------------------------------------
; Filename: mfunc10.mac
; Mill: SET ClampOn
; Lathe: SET ChuckClose, RST ChuckOpen
; Description: User Customizable Macro
; Notes:Macro will SET ClampOn (Mill Only) or ChuckClose and RST ChuckOpen (Lathe Only)
; Requires:
; Please see TB300 for tips on writing custom macros.
;------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IF #50010 ;Prevent lookahead from parsing past here
IF #4201 || #4202 THEN GOTO 1000 ;Skip macro if graphing or searching

N100 ;Insert your code between N100 and N1000

M95 /6 ;RST ChuckOpen (M11)
M94 /4 ;SET ChuckClose (M10)
G4 P3
M95 /4 ;RST ChuckClose (M10)

N1000 ;End of Macro


I tried editing the contents of the mfunc10 (close) and mfunc11 (open) macros to remove the pause/RST lines by commenting the G4 P3 and M95/4, thinking this would set the relay and leave it energised. It didn't change the duration (still 3 seconds) and the relay was still turned off after the pause. I can see that the macro is being called OK, as it objects if I insert an expletive there for test purposes.

I also find that the mfunc10/11 aren't called by the VCP button, so presumably there's a different route through for that operation.

I can't see any obvious pointers in the manual or TB300 but I'm sure there is something somewhere to guide me. Could somebody point me in the right direction?

I have 2 solenoids - one to open and one to close the jaws, with the third state being no pressure applied.

Many thanks
suntravel
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Re: Lathe chuck open / close using M10 & M11?

Post by suntravel »

related reading:

https://centroidcncforum.com/download/file.php?id=13201

Normaly for chucks the valves will stay in position, and current on the coil is only needed to change the position of the valve.

Timer is to make sure the coils will not overheat.

Uwe
Muzzer
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Re: Lathe chuck open / close using M10 & M11?

Post by Muzzer »

The Kitagawa m/c tool manufacturer and user documentation is very clear. For these chucks, the solenoids must be continually energised. They recommend the use of a check valve to guard against low pressure transients or loss of power, to give time to safely control any outage. However, the solenoids should be continually energised and the hydraulic pressure applied continually during machine operation. These solenoids (same as others in the machine) are rated for continuous operation, so there's no reason to limit operation to prevent overheating.
https://www.kitagawa.com/en/mtools/inc/ ... 109_en.pdf

A collet closer mechanism may be different. The original closer option for my machine was "bistable" ie only required pressure to change from open to closed or vice versa, due to the mechanical (wedge) design that maintained drawbar tension via a set of Belville (disk) springs after the removal of pressure. None of the Kitagawa hydraulic or pneumatic actuators have either a mechanical or spring element that can maintain the jaw force in the absence of hydraulic pressure.

So I'm back to my original question. This is a 3 jaw chuck, so I need to be able to clamp internal and external features, as it is designed to do. I need to be able to apply "in", "out" and "release" to the chuck. The "in" and "out" are controlled by individual relays / solenoids and the default (neither solenoid energised) is "release".

It's looking as if I will need to create my own custom macros for M10 and M11 here but I'm still puzzled why my changes to the existing mfunc10/11 content didn't have the desired effect. I'll also have to edit the VCP so I have "open", "close" and "release" controls for the chuck. Getting the macros to work would be a helpful first step!
suntravel
Posts: 1967
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Re: Lathe chuck open / close using M10 & M11?

Post by suntravel »

You can use a 4/2 valve with two coils that stays in position with no current, or you can edit the PLC so M10/11 will not be released from the timer.

Uwe
Muzzer
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Re: Lathe chuck open / close using M10 & M11?

Post by Muzzer »

I have a similar but different query about the tailstock output. The VCP toggles it between in and out but I'd like to be able to have separate "in" and "out" outputs from Acorn, as it will rarely be used in practice. The toggling logic results in one of the solenoids always being activated and hydraulic pressure being applied even when the thing is parked.

There are other timer parameters around parameter 992 although they seem to be associated with the part catcher, cutoff timer(?) and spindle brake.
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... meters.pdf

Any suggestions - or will I need to further doctor my PLC?

Many thanks
suntravel
Posts: 1967
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:49 pm
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CNC Control System Serial Number: 6433DB0446C1-08115074
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Germany

Re: Lathe chuck open / close using M10 & M11?

Post by suntravel »

You can edit M32 M33 macros to your preference.

These are used for Tailstock IN / OUT

Uwe
Muzzer
Posts: 728
Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:52 pm
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Re: Lathe chuck open / close using M10 & M11?

Post by Muzzer »

Many thanks. It was hiding in plain sight, right under my nose!
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