Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

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Beamicon
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:57 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
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CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

Post by Beamicon »

Hello,
I have a small lathe, retrofit of a spanish CNC 105 System.
But I changed a lot. The original control was a Fagor system.

Axis x and Z with 1kW Moog AC Servo
Driver Speedcube (own Product, Step/Dir up to 1,6MHz)(before DC-Servos)

Spindle 3kW AC Servo Fanuc,
Driver Speedcube (Step/Dir) (10.000rpm)

Chuck (pneumatic)

ATC 12 tools, 6 of them motorised.
Atc is controlled by:
Motor: Stepper (Driver Beast, own product, Step/Dir),
1 sensor for tool 1
1 soleonid valve 24V for open/close the ATC
2 sensors for open/close.

For the tools, 1kW Moog AC Servo, driver +-10V, Encoder A/B/Z


What I need:
-Spindle in mode axis C (to mill and bore with the tools) (Should be possible, I saw)
-Synchronize tools with spindle speed to cut shapes
-Control the ATC (1× step/dir, 3x inputs, 1x output)

And all other normal stuff (threading, constant cutting speed, feed mm/rev), but this is possible, I know.
The speed is very high, 10.000rpm spindle.
The tools are very small. drill 0.3mm and so on.
The workpieces are very small parts.

Is this possible to do with the hard/software?
Which controller I need?

The main questions are:
Can I control the spindle with step/dir up to 1.6MHz for spindle mode up to 10.000 rpm?
Can I control the tool motor with +-10V and synchronize with the main spindle (tool has Encoder)
Can I control the ATC directly (macro, usage of one step/dir axis) or must I build a extern hardware to do this.
Can I jog manualy with keys or joystick (not Encoder wheel) to use as conventianal lathe for sample pieces and tests?

Best,
Ingolf

PS: Its possible to add a cam system for tool measurement?
Last edited by Beamicon on Wed Aug 10, 2022 9:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Beamicon
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:57 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

Post by Beamicon »

Ok, I answer by myself...
One part I´ve found in this thread:
https://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic. ... 550#p66550

So it must possible to control the spindle as C-Axis :-)
suntravel
Posts: 1967
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:49 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 6433DB0446C1-08115074
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Germany

Re: Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

Post by suntravel »

You can a spindle control as C-axis max is 400kHz with Acorn.

But for turning I would run it with 0-10V

There are macros for different types of ATC, can be used without extra hardware

You can jog with the VCP or keyboard.

Uwe
Beamicon
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:57 am
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Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

Post by Beamicon »

Only 400kHz? I need also for the drives (X/Z/Y) more as 400kHz... this is a bottle neck.
The main spindle I can´t switch between step/dir and +-10V, the servo drive can only step/dir.
The resolver has 32768 "steps", divide by 4, so I have 8192 Steps/rev. This results in 1,35Mhz step frequency.

If its not possible to get >1MHz step frequency I can´t use this board.
Whats with the T-400 or T-39 systems? They are better?
suntravel
Posts: 1967
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:49 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 6433DB0446C1-08115074
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Germany

Re: Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

Post by suntravel »

400 khz is pretty fast for step/dir

Most drivers have a pulse width not less than 2.5µs, so there is no use for faster than 400kHz

Uwe
Beamicon
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:57 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

Post by Beamicon »

Our drivers working with 1.6MHz, our CNC Controller also (Milling purpose, Beamicon2).

But I need a controller for turning and I will use our own products also (AC driver, ATC, Spindle drive).
suntravel
Posts: 1967
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:49 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 6433DB0446C1-08115074
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Germany

Re: Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

Post by suntravel »

Here is the Specifications Manual of the Acorn board.

https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... manual.pdf

It is the same for mill or lathe, the difference is the software

Uwe
Beamicon
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:57 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

Post by Beamicon »

Thanks Uwe,

so I need also 6 axis, (xyzc+atc+tool)

In this case the atorn is'nt the correct hardware.

Whats with the T-400 or T-39 system?
suntravel
Posts: 1967
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:49 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 6433DB0446C1-08115074
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Germany

Re: Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

Post by suntravel »

Take a look at the oak board, this is up to 8 axes

Uwe
Beamicon
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:57 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Atc and spindle control - which hardware I need

Post by Beamicon »

No - the OAK board also don´t work for us.

What I need:
-Spindle in C axis mode (for milling and drilling with the tools on x/y axis).
-Synchronize tools with spindle speed to cut shapes.
-Control of ATC (1× step/dir, 3x inputs, 1x output).

The spindle speed is very high, 10,000rpm spindle.

The AC servo drives for XYZ are step/dir (differential).
The AC servo drives for spindle C are also step/dir controlled.
The AC servo drive for the tools is +-10V, the tool has an encoder (ABZ, 2048 pulses).
All AC drives have a limit of 1.6MHz step frequency.
The ATC has a stepper motor drive for positioning the tools, also with step/dir.

The spindle cannot be switched between the modes of the driver, i.e. the step frequency must be up to 1.35MHz (10,000rpm X (resolver 32768/4)).
For axis XYZ we need 890kHz step frequency.

Furthermore we would like to use a laser measurement or camera measurement of the tools, because they are partly very small (0,1-0,3mm drills) and with a contact method these can be damaged.

The axis drives are our own production and cannot be replaced. This is a condition.

What for a control system I need for this? The system must be work - the price is secundary.
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