Built in probing VS probe app

All things related to the Centroid Acorn CNC Controller

Moderator: cnckeith

BillB
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:43 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Built in probing VS probe app

Post by BillB »

Hey all, Im working on getting my mill set up and thinking about probe setup. What are the benefits of using the Probe app Vs just using the probing functions in CNC12? And is probing included in the free version?
swissi
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:15 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 985DADEB24D5-0309180716
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Built in probing VS probe app

Post by swissi »

BillB wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 4:34 pm Hey all, Im working on getting my mill set up and thinking about probe setup. What are the benefits of using the Probe app Vs just using the probing functions in CNC12? And is probing included in the free version?
The ProbeApp has many benefits over the built in probing cycles but it depends on the type of tool holding (collets or exchangeable tool holders) and the type of probing devices you have if you can take advantage of these benefits or not.

If you give more details about your machine and the type of tool holding and probing devices you have I can give you more details about the benefits the ProbeApp will give you over the standard built in probing cycles.

-swissi
If you are using Fusion 360, check out my CNC12 specific Post Processor
If you are using a Touch Probe, Tool Touch Off Device or a Triple Corner Finder Plate, check out my ProbeApp

Contact me at swissi2000@gmail.com
BillB
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:43 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Built in probing VS probe app

Post by BillB »

swissi wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 10:51 pm
BillB wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 4:34 pm Hey all, Im working on getting my mill set up and thinking about probe setup. What are the benefits of using the Probe app Vs just using the probing functions in CNC12? And is probing included in the free version?
The ProbeApp has many benefits over the built in probing cycles but it depends on the type of tool holding (collets or exchangeable tool holders) and the type of probing devices you have if you can take advantage of these benefits or not.

If you give more details about your machine and the type of tool holding and probing devices you have I can give you more details about the benefits the ProbeApp will give you over the standard built in probing cycles.

-swissi
I spoke to you about his in the past not sure what post.

Anyways the machine is a 3-axis Sherline mini mill with 4th axis. There is 2 tool holding options I will be using. One is a R8 type collet but is MICRO sized, but there is a drawbar/bold that pulls the tool holder into the spindle taper to hold the tool in the collet. So repeatability is questionable I assume? The second option is a rigid tool holder that gets threaded onto the spindle. The tools are set and screwed into place. I remember asking Karl at Sherline how repeatable this option is and I think he said it was pretty good. No ATC or anything fancy on this set up so all manual tool changes. I WILL be using this machine for a specific indexing & 4th axis setup to cut a hex head on a really small valve part, stock is .375. So Probing to establish centerline alignment would be really nice to have. Other than that use its a general use machine with and with 4th axis.

https://www.sherline.com/product/306030 ... llet-sets/
https://www.sherline.com/product/3079-end-mill-holders/
https://www.sherline.com/product/3052s- ... ght-shaft/

You might remember this from our past conversation but this is the probe Im looking at getting because it is very low profile and seems like it will fit in the machine well with my 4th axis set up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203197196915?h ... SwB0lhTJ4I
swissi
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:15 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 985DADEB24D5-0309180716
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Built in probing VS probe app

Post by swissi »

BillB wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 5:00 pm
I spoke to you about his in the past not sure what post.

Anyways the machine is a 3-axis Sherline mini mill with 4th axis. There is 2 tool holding options I will be using. One is a R8 type collet but is MICRO sized, but there is a drawbar/bold that pulls the tool holder into the spindle taper to hold the tool in the collet. So repeatability is questionable I assume? The second option is a rigid tool holder that gets threaded onto the spindle. The tools are set and screwed into place. I remember asking Karl at Sherline how repeatable this option is and I think he said it was pretty good. No ATC or anything fancy on this set up so all manual tool changes. I WILL be using this machine for a specific indexing & 4th axis setup to cut a hex head on a really small valve part, stock is .375. So Probing to establish centerline alignment would be really nice to have. Other than that use its a general use machine with and with 4th axis.

https://www.sherline.com/product/306030 ... llet-sets/
https://www.sherline.com/product/3079-end-mill-holders/
https://www.sherline.com/product/3052s- ... ght-shaft/

You might remember this from our past conversation but this is the probe Im looking at getting because it is very low profile and seems like it will fit in the machine well with my 4th axis set up.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203197196915?h ... SwB0lhTJ4I
If you are using the R8 type collects for tool holding and the repeatability of the tool height offset after a tool change is questionable, you need to measure the tool height offset after each tool change.

The ProbeApp has the ToolSetter cycle that supports the dual and single probe methods that makes this process much easier. In your case I would recommend the dual probe method with a Touch Probe and a fixed Tool Touch Off device.

Let’s say you have a rectangular piece of stock and you need to set WCS 0 at one corner of the stock and than mill out several features with multiple tools, you could do the following workflow:
  • Mount the rectangular stock into your vise
  • Insert the Touch Probe into the spindle
  • Use the ProbeApp 3-Axes corner cycle to set WCS X0 Y0 Z0 at the Stock corner with one probing cycle (the CNC12 built in probing cycles do not offer a single 3-Axes cycle):

    P52.PNG
  • With the Touch Probe still in the spindle, run the ProbeApp Tool Setter cycle that will measure the reference height offset between the top of your stock and the top of the fixed Tool Touch Off device. Make sure the checkbox “Use current WCS Z0…” is checked. This will move the Touch Probe directly to the fixed Tool Touch Off device to measure the reference height offset:

    P53.PNG
  • Now insert the first tool and then run the ProbeApp ToolSetter cycle again. This will touch off the tool automatically on your fixed Tool Touch Off device and will adjust the WCS Z0 for this tool to the top of your stock based on the reference height that was established with the Touch Probe

    P54.PNG
  • Repeat the above step for all subsequent tools needed in your job file

Checkout the details of the ProbeApp ToolSetter cycles in the ToolSetter Chapter of the ProbeApp User Guide.

Here are more links that will show you the full functionality of the ProbeApp and the advantages it provides:

ProbeApp User Guide
ProbeApp V3: The Ultimate ProbeSoftware for CNC12
Guide on how to measure Tool Heights and set WCS Z0 on a Router or Mill with none-fixed Tool Holders most efficently

-swissi
If you are using Fusion 360, check out my CNC12 specific Post Processor
If you are using a Touch Probe, Tool Touch Off Device or a Triple Corner Finder Plate, check out my ProbeApp

Contact me at swissi2000@gmail.com
BillB
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:43 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Built in probing VS probe app

Post by BillB »

I am primarily setting up this little mill for 4th axis work most 3 axis stuff done on my Tormach. So let me ask you this, Are there any specific probing routines for establishing the centerline and end of the stock of round stock that is fixed in rotary jaws? Stock will be parallel with the machine table.

Also what If I dont want to use a fixed location for the tool setter? It's a big commitment in table size based on my tiny little table and the tool setter I have which is pretty big in diameter. Can I set it up to be fixed, then when it scans offset just manually place it in the correct location?
swissi
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:15 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 985DADEB24D5-0309180716
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Built in probing VS probe app

Post by swissi »

BillB wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 4:16 pm I am primarily setting up this little mill for 4th axis work most 3 axis stuff done on my Tormach. So let me ask you this, Are there any specific probing routines for establishing the centerline and end of the stock of round stock that is fixed in rotary jaws? Stock will be parallel with the machine table.

Also what If I dont want to use a fixed location for the tool setter? It's a big commitment in table size based on my tiny little table and the tool setter I have which is pretty big in diameter. Can I set it up to be fixed, then when it scans offset just manually place it in the correct location?
The fixed Tool Touch Off device (TT) does not necessarily be fix installed. You can mark a spot on the machine table for the fix location and just place the TT on that spot when needed. That way you could do the dual probe method with just one movable TT that you place on the fix location when needed.

If you rather touch off all tools manually you can use the Single TT method. With this method you insert your new tool, then place the TT on top of the stock, jog the tool manually over the TT and then press the probing cycle button to start the tool height offset measurement.

P55.PNG

To find the center of a part in the chuck of your 4th axis, you can use a Web Probing cycle that touches off on both sides and then positions the spindle at the center of the two measurements. To find the end of the part in the 4th axis chuck, you use a single axis probing cycle along the X or Y axis, depending along which axis your 4th axis is parallel to.

-swissi
If you are using Fusion 360, check out my CNC12 specific Post Processor
If you are using a Touch Probe, Tool Touch Off Device or a Triple Corner Finder Plate, check out my ProbeApp

Contact me at swissi2000@gmail.com
BillB
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2021 1:43 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Built in probing VS probe app

Post by BillB »

COOL! thanks can you remind me is there anything special regarding requirements for the probe to have so it works with Acorn and Probe App? Also can you provide the download link I dont remember how you do distribution but do remember its donationware? right?

This is the probe Im going to buy, can you offer any input on it? Do you have any users who have used it? and can you let me know if it is compatible with Probe App and Acorn before I purchase it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203197196915?h ... SwB0lhTJ4I
suntravel
Posts: 1967
Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2021 3:49 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 6433DB0446C1-08115074
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Germany

Re: Built in probing VS probe app

Post by suntravel »

I have a DIG3D probe 24V NPN.

Works with Acorn but mechanical it is not well build.

Uwe
swissi
Posts: 573
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:15 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 985DADEB24D5-0309180716
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Built in probing VS probe app

Post by swissi »

BillB wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 8:49 pm COOL! thanks can you remind me is there anything special regarding requirements for the probe to have so it works with Acorn and Probe App? Also can you provide the download link I dont remember how you do distribution but do remember its donationware? right?

This is the probe Im going to buy, can you offer any input on it? Do you have any users who have used it? and can you let me know if it is compatible with Probe App and Acorn before I purchase it.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203197196915?h ... SwB0lhTJ4I
The ProbeApp doesn't have any special probe requirements. It works with all probes that work with CNC12. Regarding the probe you posted, you have to make sure you get the 24V, NPN version as suntravel mentioned and be aware of the built quality as the probe stylus holder is made out of plastic and might have a lot of flex depending on the spring force of the probe. The Trip-Map function of the ProbeApp will tell you how bad the flex and stylus deflection off this probe really is and what overall probing accuracy you can expect with this probe on your machine.

The ProbeApp is DonationWare and you can contact me at the email address mentioned in my signature below if you are interested in the ProbeApp.

-swissi
If you are using Fusion 360, check out my CNC12 specific Post Processor
If you are using a Touch Probe, Tool Touch Off Device or a Triple Corner Finder Plate, check out my ProbeApp

Contact me at swissi2000@gmail.com
tblough
Posts: 3072
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:03 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: 100505
100327
102696
103432
7804732B977B-0624192192
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Built in probing VS probe app

Post by tblough »

You will also need to periodically align and calibrate that probe as the 3D printed parts relax and change shape. Not the best material choice for a precision device.
Cheers,

Tom
Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.
I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are where they should be.
Post Reply