New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

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RogDC
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by RogDC »

Guess it depends on your budget, what you are willing to spend, where you want to spend it - shipping vs. product, and your desired end result.

If your machine is truly a 'Yugo' perhaps there is unknown issue causing lost steps and servos are probably a work around for the real issue.

Have you considered investing in better quality steppers and see if that resolves the issues? Identify where the source of your pain is being generated.

In your situation the "biggest steppers" may not be the right solution. Determine the true limits of the machine design and select something which will be adequate without inducing another problem.

Maybe it's time to sell the 'Yugo' and buy a Hyundai or Toyota.
dtananko
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by dtananko »

RogDC, thank you for your comments. Here is my story. I believe the frame is solid and with linear bearings it can be very fast. I attached a few pics to illustrate dreaded step skips that ruined my first attempt on the carvings I am working on right now. It took 2+ hours on adaptive step and after 3 hours of parallel it gave that bad error. My second attempt was much better. This time, I reduce the step for parallel cleaning and the carving came out beautiful, which demonstrate the capability of this machine. It was more than 10 hours of carving. I can still see minor step skipping on a flat part of the carving ( I am not shure it can be seen on the picture), but it was very impressive to me. The Acorn board is extremely reliable to give me this results on the open loop motors. I am extremely impressed and happy with my upgrade. I would never dare to try it on my previous NOVUSUN USB and Mach 3.
As you can see, I need minor push to make it as perfect as it can be with closing the loop on motors and avoiding any missing steps. Another thing I would like to improve is the speed of carving. I understand that it is not only the max jogging speed, but also acceleration as well as for this type of work it take small jerky steps to carve complex surface and never reaches the maximum allowed speed. And, probably , I do not need a lot of torque. That is why I am looking into servos direction. The concern about servos is that I will need to tune it for the mass and inertia of my machine.
Hence, it can be a new journey for me, but I hope to figure it our with the help of the youtube community.
I was hoping to hear some definite answer about cheap JMC or STEPPERONLINE new servos as an alternative to CLearPath version as they are comparable in price with the closed-loop steppers. I believe, if somebody tells me that these servos not much better than steppers that I would go with ClearPath. That is my dilemma I am seeking help for. As you can see it is not a question about the budget. I realize, if I try to save now and find myself in the same pickle later I will pay twice. And that is exactly what I am trying to avoid.
Again thank you for your help and comments.
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20220114_183147411_iOS (2).jpg
Best Regards,
Dmitry
cnckeith
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by cnckeith »

the clearpaths work and produce smooth results.

consider that other areas of machine design significantly effect machine tool motion smoothness and speed, big gains can be made in this area with simple design considerations and should be addressed in conjunction with any upgrade to closed loop motors.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
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dtananko
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by dtananko »

Can you clarify what you mean about other areas of the machine design, please?
Best Regards,
Dmitry
suntravel
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by suntravel »

Change the ACME spindles to quality 2% pretensioned ballscrews...

Make sure the moving parts have no play, ad weight to the non moving parts ect.

Consider for +1500mm rotating ball nuts for high speed

Uwe
dtananko
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by dtananko »

Currently I have zero play and lash as measured up to 0.001", but i understand the importance of the precision for the mechanical transmission. Can you point me out to a good source of ballscrews and ball nuts? Thanks.
Best Regards,
Dmitry
cnckeith
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by cnckeith »

dtananko wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 4:44 pm Can you clarify what you mean about other areas of the machine design, please?
Motors large and powerful enough to move each axis without approaching the limit of the motor.

Very important to have the overall turns ratio (a mechanical constant defined by machine design) and the steps per rev (a electronic constant defined by axis motor drive setup) be in the CNC Happy Zone.

Milling and Lathe Machine Happy Zone.
- Happy Zone Overall Turns Ratio for milling machines and lathes is 5 to 10 turns of the AXIS MOTOR yields 1" of table/gantry movement.
- Steps Per Revolution of 3200 or higher.

Router and Plasma Machine Happy Zone
- Happy Zone Overall Turns Ratio for routers is 1.5 to 2.5 turns of the AXIS MOTOR yields 1" of table/gantry movement.
- Steps per Revolution of at least 1600

If you plan on doing 3D surfacing work with a router, lean these values more towards a milling machine. For Example 2.5 turns per inch overall turns ratio and 3200 steps per revolution.

- Low lash as possible.

- Rigid machine design so machine movement does not flex, or shake the machine itself.

read more details here.

https://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic. ... 936#p11936
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
dtananko
Posts: 26
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by dtananko »

Thank you, Keith. Currently I have 8mm screws, which gives me 3.175" pre rev and 1600 steps per rev on my cheap open loop motors. And no measurable lash. I do not think I can easily upgrade my screws to high quality ballscrews due to gantry setup, but when I get my new motors, I definitely go for higher steps per rev.
Best Regards,
Dmitry
cnckeith
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by cnckeith »

dtananko wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:05 pm Thank you, Keith. Currently I have 8mm screws, which gives me 3.175" pre rev and 1600 steps per rev on my cheap open loop motors. And no measurable lash. I do not think I can easily upgrade my screws to high quality ballscrews due to gantry setup, but when I get my new motors, I definitely go for higher steps per rev.

If you plan on doing a lot of 3D surfacing work with a router and want to optimize it for that type of work, lean values more towards the happy zone of a milling machine.

For Example put the overall turns ratio in the 2.5 - 3.5 turns per inch range and motor drives at 3200 steps per revolution.



8mm pitch screws...that means to me that one revolution of the screw would yield 8mm of motion. how are the axis motors connected to the screws?

if the machine is moving 3.175" per 1 revolution of the axis motor that is WAY out of the cnc machine happy zone and will perform poorly.

Post photos of the machine tool in a photo album and post the link here.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
cnckeith
Posts: 3868
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Re: New STEPPERONLINE Integrated Servo motor

Post by cnckeith »

i think i read that you have a work bee? if so, you may be interested in francos vidoes on his workbee build, he has nine of them in a series, here is the last one.

Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
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