How do you wire/ program a ATC auto tool changer with acorn?

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rk9268vc
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How do you wire/ program a ATC auto tool changer with acorn?

Post by rk9268vc »

Ive got a converted PM-30MV (similar to the tormach 1100M) Funny enough I actually use better teknic servos than in the 1100MX lol

I am thinking of adding an auto tool changer to my 3 axis mill. Either building one, or just buying the one from tormach.

How would I wire/ program the acorn to add this functionality? Can you?
Im looking at doing the umbrella style so it is just one servo and one air cylinder. My 4th axis is still open, and i could use a relay for the cylinder.

Has anyone done this before, and is there any documentation yall can point me too?

If not, im thinking of probably using a BRX PLC from automation direct to run the tool changer and then have acorn somehow send a combination of relay outputs to correspond to what tool it wants. (i.e. 4 relay outputs from acorn could be used as a binary input to the plc to chose between 15 tools)
I use Fusion as my CAM, can you set up the post processor to fire off different I/O for different tools? How do they handle an ATC?

I am a newbie when it comes to the CNC, acorn, and CAM, so you might have to dumb it down for me a bit, but I am a manufacturing engineer as my day job so the mechanics dont frighten me :]

Thanks!
ShawnM
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Re: How do you wire/ program a ATC auto tool changer with acorn?

Post by ShawnM »

Here's a link to the Acorn documentation on the various types of ATC used with Acorn:
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... ograms.zip

All other documentation can also be found here for Acorn:
https://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
martyscncgarage
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Re: How do you wire/ program a ATC auto tool changer with acorn?

Post by martyscncgarage »

Stick with CNC12 for your PLC. If you are building it, model it after the Umbrella Tool Changer PLC that Shawn linked you to.
Its not trivial, lots going on in an ATC

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
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rk9268vc
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Re: How do you wire/ program a ATC auto tool changer with acorn?

Post by rk9268vc »

ShawnM wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:05 am Here's a link to the Acorn documentation on the various types of ATC used with Acorn:
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... ograms.zip
Thanks for the link

So from this documentation it looks like the acorn is only sending relay outputs to an atc unit to index it
This means I need to have a separate motion controller or PLC to drive the atc servo and all acorn is doing it telling it to index left or right.

This is good in the sense that I dont have to sacrifice my 4th axis in acorn to run the atc, but means there is a little more work on the controls side.

i definitely need to do some more research into how Fusion handles tool changes, and how acorn handles them
thanks
rk9268vc
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Re: How do you wire/ program a ATC auto tool changer with acorn?

Post by rk9268vc »

Here's a funky fresh idea

I am already using the tormach TTS system, what if I were to just buy a tormach ATC and install it on my non tormach mill?
All it is is a stepper with a photo eye for rotation, and a pneumatic cylinder.
https://tormach.com/automatic-tool-chan ... 35900.html
Here is a video of them installing it, and at 8:00 you can see into the ATC control box and it is just a stepperonline MA860H driver


Then I just need a motion controller, like the ClearCore from Teknic, or ProductivityOpen PLC from AutomationDirect to handle the programming.

This would give me a working design that already works with my TTS tool holders, then all i got to do is a simple program to run the ATC and im off to the races for around 3500$

Thoughts? Im kindof getting excited now
martyscncgarage
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Re: How do you wire/ program a ATC auto tool changer with acorn?

Post by martyscncgarage »

rk9268vc wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:09 am
ShawnM wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:05 am Here's a link to the Acorn documentation on the various types of ATC used with Acorn:
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... ograms.zip
Thanks for the link

So from this documentation it looks like the acorn is only sending relay outputs to an atc unit to index it
This means I need to have a separate motion controller or PLC to drive the atc servo and all acorn is doing it telling it to index left or right.

This is good in the sense that I dont have to sacrifice my 4th axis in acorn to run the atc, but means there is a little more work on the controls side.

i definitely need to do some more research into how Fusion handles tool changes, and how acorn handles them
thanks
No, Centroid CNC12 has a built in PLC. It uses the PLC to control the carousel.
A typical carousel rotates the tool platter with a geneva mechanism (Search YouTube ATC Geneva Mechanism) it is usually controlled by a small simple, reversible motor. There is one proximity sensor and each tool has precisely placed target for the Proximity sensor. The job of the sensor is to count tool positions.
Once the ATC is initialized, the control keeps track of the tool position. If there is a crash or an incomplete tool cycle, the ATC must be reset/reinitialized. The control will time out if the ATC does not get to the proper tool in a given time period.

A typical tool change looks like this:
Head down to tool change position
Spindle orient to align the key in the tool to the key in the spindle (Tormach TTS does not need this)
ATC IN to grip the tool
Drawbar release
Head UP to clear the ATC
ATC Carousel rotate to the proper tool (CNC12 is counting the tool "targets" as the carousel rotates. CNC12 stops the rotation when the proper number of tool targets has been achieved)
Head DOWN to engage the tool
Draw bar clamp
ATC OUT
Cycle complete.

Note, there is an AIR BLOW output that may be used if air is blown down through the spindle to clear chips from the tool arbor.

If a stepper and stepper driver is used, then somehow the correct number of pulses must be sent to the stepper motor to turn the ATC Carousel the correct number of turns. As far as I know, currently, the only way to do this is with the 4th axis drive output, which you would loose for something like a rotary axis.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
cobiecat
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Re: How do you wire/ program a ATC auto tool changer with acorn?

Post by cobiecat »

Shawn,

I built a 10 position bi-directional tool changer for my Tormach mill and control it in a manner similar to what you were describing. I use the outputs of an add-on Tormach I/O board as inputs to a Parker 6k controller which can be programmed as desired. The 6k controller sends pulse and direction signals to a stepper drive. The stepper is a NEMA 23 with a 100:1 gear reducer. I modified my post processor to provide the output commands and G-code as part of the tool change sequence. It works well, and the tool changer can be totally removed from the machine very easily. Most of the work I do is one-off type stuff, so the tool changer is only used now and then for higher quantity parts.

That said, I just recently completed my first Centroid Acorn conversion; a standard-issue 1240 lathe with 6-position tool turret. I was able to fairly easily get the tool turret working using only the standard Centroid Acorn controller. The stepper motor that drives the turret uses axis 4 set up as a rotary axis. The tool change macro tells the axis what to do. There are some additional parameters that need to be set in CNC12 as well. The X/Z axis use Teknic servos. Although this is a simpler implementation than a mill tool changer, you should be able to figure out how to do it all using the Centroid Acorn. There is a lot of information available on compiling a customized PLC program available in the forum and in other Centroid documents. There will be a learning curve, but heck, why not just go for it. You might need the Centroid add-on I/O board depending on how complicated your scheme is. Sorry, I can't provide any help as I'm just starting to learn the Acorn PLC stuff myself.

Below is a link to a video of my mill tool changer being tested and a photo. Let me know if the link doesn't work for some reason.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4msglofwr9ee ... OahTa?dl=0
firebrick43
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Re: How do you wire/ program a ATC auto tool changer with acorn?

Post by firebrick43 »

martyscncgarage wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:06 am
rk9268vc wrote: Sun Jan 02, 2022 1:09 am
ShawnM wrote: Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:05 am Here's a link to the Acorn documentation on the various types of ATC used with Acorn:
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... ograms.zip
Thanks for the link

So from this documentation it looks like the acorn is only sending relay outputs to an atc unit to index it
This means I need to have a separate motion controller or PLC to drive the atc servo and all acorn is doing it telling it to index left or right.

This is good in the sense that I dont have to sacrifice my 4th axis in acorn to run the atc, but means there is a little more work on the controls side.

i definitely need to do some more research into how Fusion handles tool changes, and how acorn handles them
thanks
No, Centroid CNC12 has a built in PLC. It uses the PLC to control the carousel.
A typical carousel rotates the tool platter with a geneva mechanism (Search YouTube ATC Geneva Mechanism) it is usually controlled by a small simple, reversible motor. There is one proximity sensor and each tool has precisely placed target for the Proximity sensor. The job of the sensor is to count tool positions.
Once the ATC is initialized, the control keeps track of the tool position. If there is a crash or an incomplete tool cycle, the ATC must be reset/reinitialized. The control will time out if the ATC does not get to the proper tool in a given time period.

A typical tool change looks like this:
Head down to tool change position
Spindle orient to align the key in the tool to the key in the spindle (Tormach TTS does not need this)
ATC IN to grip the tool
Drawbar release
Head UP to clear the ATC
ATC Carousel rotate to the proper tool (CNC12 is counting the tool "targets" as the carousel rotates. CNC12 stops the rotation when the proper number of tool targets has been achieved)
Head DOWN to engage the tool
Draw bar clamp
ATC OUT
Cycle complete.

Note, there is an AIR BLOW output that may be used if air is blown down through the spindle to clear chips from the tool arbor.

If a stepper and stepper driver is used, then somehow the correct number of pulses must be sent to the stepper motor to turn the ATC Carousel the correct number of turns. As far as I know, currently, the only way to do this is with the 4th axis drive output, which you would loose for something like a rotary axis.

Marty

Can you do this with just one prox switch, that signals each pocket, or would you need 2, one for each pocket and another for the home pocket?
martyscncgarage
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Re: How do you wire/ program a ATC auto tool changer with acorn?

Post by martyscncgarage »

Go here, download the ATC files. Look at the Carousel folder. https://centroidcncforum.com/viewforum.php?f=63
Look in the Installation Instructions folder and read the instructions. It tells you very specifically which inputs and outputs are needed.
In a nutshell, yes, you need one sensor to count the tools. You will "initialize" the ATC. from then on, CNC12 will keep track of the tool.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
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